Stupidest Guns used in Movies

[Excalibur]

I guess they wanted to use real world weapons in TS before they bring in the plasma rifles. Maybe in the next movie.

[Nyles]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just saw an episode of M*A*S*H full of Korean-war Chinese soldiers carrying Valmet M/76s (and wearing SKS ammo pouches, of course).

[Mandolin1]

I saw that one, but I thought that they were Type 84s or something like that. That's the episode where HAwkeye and MArgret are stuck in the middle of nowhere together. BTW, there are some PPShs in the episode "Rainbow Bridge"

[Nyles]

Well, the PPSh makes total sense, but not only are Valmet M/76s pretty distinctly Finnish, the Chinese never had AKs in Korea. Hell, I don't even think many Soviet units had any at that point - when they adopted it the AK was originally supposed to be squad leaders of troops armed with the SKS. It's only when the Soviet army went fully mech that it became general issue.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Mandolin1

I saw that one, but I thought that they were Type 84s or something like that.

Neither the Type 56 nor the Type 84 was being imported to the U.S. at the time that MASH was on the air. The Valmets, on the other hand, started coming to this country in the late-70s, so they would've been available.

Originally Posted by Nyles

Well, the PPSh makes total sense, but not only are Valmet M/76s pretty distinctly Finnish, the Chinese never had AKs in Korea. Hell, I don't even think many Soviet units had any at that point - when they adopted it the AK was originally supposed to be squad leaders of troops armed with the SKS. It's only when the Soviet army went fully mech that it became general issue.

That's how the Chinese used AKs for most of the 1960s, too - they classified their AKs as the Type 56 submachine gun, which implies it was meant to be issued only to squad leaders. Their SKS copy was called the Type 56 carbine, and was the standard-issue to most PLA soldiers.

As for the Soviets, I believe it was after the Hungarian Uprising (in 1956) that they realized that the AK was better used as a standard-issue infantry rifle than as a submachine gun only (even though Mikhail Kalashnikov himself had always intended it to be an infantry rifle). This is also part of the reason that the AKM was developed.

[Excalibur]

At least China is not using AKs anymore. But I was watching a chinese military channel episode, promoting the QBZ 95s. Since it's propaganda, I wanted to see how the chinese promotes their stuff. There was a test where a soldier dunk it in water, like it's trying to over the beach test.

The problem was that all the guy did was dunk the rifle empty, no round in the chamber, and held it down for a few seconds, then took it out, and shook it a bit, obviously draining all the water and taking his sweet time. Then loading and cocking. Then taking his sweet time to aim and firing a shot. All that time gave the rifle more time to drain the water. If it was a true test, he would have chambered a round, mag in and fired immediately after taking the rifle out.

[Markost]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

At least China is not using AKs anymore. But I was watching a chinese military channel episode, promoting the QBZ 95s. Since it's propaganda, I wanted to see how the chinese promotes their stuff. There was a test where a soldier dunk it in water, like it's trying to over the beach test.

The problem was that all the guy did was dunk the rifle empty, no round in the chamber, and held it down for a few seconds, then took it out, and shook it a bit, obviously draining all the water and taking his sweet time. Then loading and cocking. Then taking his sweet time to aim and firing a shot. All that time gave the rifle more time to drain the water. If it was a true test, he would have chambered a round, mag in and fired immediately after taking the rifle out.

Ehm... the Argentinian Army tested those rifles a couple of years ago. According to the Army, it "didn´t meet the basic requirements", and according to the soldiers that tested them, "it was a piece of junk".

[MT2008]

Seeing combat weapons get dunked in the water is a "test" that's become so cliche that I'm starting to doubt it means anything about the gun's reliability.

Originally Posted by Markit

The idea that semi-automatic rifles would suffice for most soldiers and that only certain troops would use Kalashnikov rifles persisted in China until the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War. The fact that the Kalashnikov-equipped Vietnamese outgunned the PLA in many engagements forced the Chinese to revise their doctrines and remove their Type 56 carbines from frontline service; it also initiated the development of the Type 81 rifle as a replacement.

Interesting, though it certainly explains why PLA troops carrying SKS seem so common in pictures from that conflict (what few I've seen). The Vietnamese Army was modeled on that of the Soviet Union (they had more Soviet advisers than Chinese advisers, even before the Sino-Vietnamese split), so that's probably why they adopted the doctrine of assault rifles as standard-issue before the Chinese ever did.

[Markit]

Originally Posted by MT2008

Neither the Type 56 nor the Type 84 was being imported to the U.S. at the time that MASH was on the air. The Valmets, on the other hand, started coming to this country in the late-70s, so they would've been available.



That's how the Chinese used AKs for most of the 1960s, too - they classified their AKs as the Type 56 submachine gun, which implies it was meant to be issued only to squad leaders. Their SKS copy was called the Type 56 carbine, and was the standard-issue to most PLA soldiers.

The idea that semi-automatic rifles would suffice for most soldiers and that only certain troops would use Kalashnikov rifles persisted in China until the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War. The fact that the Kalashnikov-equipped Vietnamese outgunned the PLA in many engagements forced the Chinese to revise their doctrines and remove their Type 56 carbines from frontline service; it also initiated the development of the Type 81 rifle as a replacement.