SIG Sauer P220R vs Beretta 92FS

[MT2008]

A couple of things...

(1.) He uses the P220R for less than half the movie. For the rest of the movie, he uses a Beretta PX4 Storm. Why bitch about the P220 but not the PX4? Personally, I'd have rather he kept the 220 for the whole movie, anyway.

(2.) The first "Die Hard" was known for featuring some of the latest, coolest weapons of the time (not only the Beretta 92F, but also the H&K P7M13 and the Steyr AUG). Obviously, "Live Free or Die Hard" is trying to following suit, so they have him use two types of pistols that are much more recent designs. Likewise, the Beretta 92F is now an old, obsolete, and commonplace (in Hollywood) design. So having McClane use it AGAIN just wouldn't be that cool.

(3.) Contrary to what YNH says, the mag releases on SIGs are reversible. It takes a bit more effort than with Beretta, but it can be done. Not only that, but in case you guys have forgotten, we have a picture of the actual P220R that was used in the movie. As you can see, Mike Papac (the movie's armorer) in fact DID reverse the mag release for Bruce Willis so that he could reload his pistol faster:

Originally Posted by Yournamehere

For continuity's sake he should have kept the Beretta. He is a movie character and in most cases they tend to keep their firearm as it's part of who they are (Harry Calahans .44 Magnum, anyone?)

Dirty Harry used the Automag instead of the S&W for part of "Sudden Impact", remember?

[Excalibur]

Well for a character like James Bond who has used a PPK for several movies and then switched to the P99, it was more to change with the times. A main character can use a signature weapon, but it's always cool to see them use something else.

And about the 92FS, why not give the guy a more "modern" one with rails or a different model that looks more "advance"? There are plenty of Beretta variants of the 92 series

[Yournamehere]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Well for a character like James Bond who has used a PPK for several movies and then switched to the P99, it was more to change with the times. A main character can use a signature weapon, but it's always cool to see them use something else.

And about the 92FS, why not give the guy a more "modern" one with rails or a different model that looks more "advance"? There are plenty of Beretta variants of the 92 series

The entire feel of James Bond films have changed since the early days. Before it was more fantastic with regard to the espionage and gadgetry that was going on or being used. The modern films while still movies with a fair amount of movie magic and physics wreckage, still, overall, project things a modern Secret Agent would do. The gun should change to fit that.

Modern 92 versions are relatively ugly looking and really aren't used anywhere. Besides, it's still a change from the original 92F/FS he used (and I'm talking the exact gun or guns he used, like we have on the site).

The main force behind the weapon and motif changes are just the times we live in and the people we've become. With modern resources like the internet (also Mythbusters) we can figure out the truth, and as a result our disbelief is not as easily suspended and we can and will point out what is real (or possible) and what's not. Moreover we thirst for realism in movies and games and so the producers try to supply that along with modernized action, which is where new high tech guns and equipment come from. We just expect more than mumbo jumbo now.

[Yournamehere]

Pfft, why didn't I just look at the page.....

I think he stole the Px4 from someone, so it wasn't "his", the 220R was his initial carry gun, which is what we are discussing.

I never gave thought to what guns have reversible mag releases (other than the Beretta which is nearly famous for it) which is something more or less out of sight out of mind for a right handed shooter. Nowadays I find more and more guns that are capable of ambi-releasing or swapping of the button. I figured that SIGs being a modern design could do it but I never recalled any actual examples. You learn something every day.

I pretty much saw the lastest Die Hard film as a technological showcase, but now that you mention it, the first two do the same (can't say much for the 3rd sadly). I guess it's a theme of the series and not just this new movie then.

Originally Posted by MT2008

Dirty Harry used the Automag instead of the S&W for part of "Sudden Impact", remember?

That's not really the same as the change in Die Hard 4 (why won't anyone say Live Free or Die Hard? heheh). We have a character, "Dirty" Harry Calahan, who uses the same gun throughout his career (including the movie where he uses the Automag, and the one after) who decides to use a different gun while on vacation, and a character who changes his service sidearm altogether.

[predator20]

Originally Posted by MT2008

A couple of things...

(1.) He uses the P220R for less than half the movie. For the rest of the movie, he uses a Beretta PX4 Storm. Why bitch about the P220 but not the PX4? Personally, I'd have rather he kept the 220 for the whole movie, anyway.

I would have much rather seen him with his signature Beretta, lose it and then switch to a SIG P220R. The Beretta Storm is fugly as shit.

Originally Posted by MT2008

(2.) The first "Die Hard" was known for featuring some of the latest, coolest weapons of the time (not only the Beretta 92F, but also the H&K P7M13 and the Steyr AUG). Obviously, "Live Free or Die Hard" is trying to following suit, so they have him use two types of pistols that are much more recent designs. Likewise, the Beretta 92F is now an old, obsolete, and commonplace (in Hollywood) design. So having McClane use it AGAIN just wouldn't be that cool.

While a railed SIG is new, the P220 is not, been around since the mid 70s same time as the Beretta 92 was introduced. It just didn't gain prominence in movies until much later. Was the Beretta M9A1 around when Live Free or Die Hard was filmed? They could have gave him that, since the SIG P220R is an old design with a rail stuck on it to make it appear cutting edge.

Originally Posted by MT2008

(3.) Contrary to what YNH says, the mag releases on SIGs are reversible. It takes a bit more effort than with Beretta, but it can be done. Not only that, but in case you guys have forgotten, we have a picture of the actual P220R that was used in the movie. As you can see, Mike Papac (the movie's armorer) in fact DID reverse the mag release for Bruce Willis so that he could reload his pistol faster:

Since it's not an easy thing to do on a SIG, maybe that's the reason the mags were hard to release.

[Krel]

I'm left-handed, and have a Colt Commander. I don't have any problems operating either the safety, or magazine release with my left hand. However, I have never handled a Sig, so I can't comment on how the different placement of the controls would effect the handling.

David.

[S&Wshooter]

Shockingly, I believe he should have started out with a 92, lost it 3/4 of the way through the film and than grabbed himself something more recent like, dare I say, a S&W M&P

[ManiacallyChallenged]

Bond has it down, the P99 has an ambi mag-release.
I think.

[Excalibur]

Maybe a USP, which has the same style of mag release as the P99

[S&Wshooter]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Maybe a USP, which has the same style of mag release as the P99

of course if you use a pistol with that kind of mag release and have big hands, you'd accidentally drop your mag every 2 minutes