#1
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Many bloodsucking insects
Yes this is a politics thread.
Currently we have someone making a really big stink over the fact that we have a disclaimer on the Redacted page. Now redacted is a film that has caused multiple terrorist attacks and a surge in anit American sentiments in the middle east. The disclaimer is because the majority of contributors to the IMFDB do not agree with the premise of the movie ie that American Soldiers are animals. I'm all for the disclaimer and am wondering if we should put other disclaimers on such biased films as I know that there are other disclaimers posted on Anti-gun films. |
#2
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Well let's also look at it practically....
(a) IMFDB is an American site. We've had several foreign members berate us for maintaining American standards when it comes to name formatting, descriptions, etc. But reality dictates that you have to have SOME consistent standard, or every member from every country in the world could re-configure minute details to their cultural style and the site would be a mess. That being the case, we probably won't trash our own country. If someone wants to make a wiki just like IMFDB that insults or trashes America, they can make their own site offshore. (b) Many of our valued contributors are 'patriotic' (that is NOT a nasty word and it does not mean blind acceptance of everything any administration does, but it means that the person still loves and supports their country). I know the word "patriotic" in 'some quarters' means a flag waving 'redneck' hawk, but I use the term as far as showing respect to one's country and institutions (regardless of whether any current or former people in positions of power were effective or good at their jobs, or not). Also many of our valued contributors are either veterans of military service OR supporters of our military. It does not mean blind promotion of any or all military actions, but most Americans (and I hope most people of all nations) can separate the decisions made by those in power, and the brave men and women who serve in uniform and protect their respective countries. That being the case, we don't want to INSULT either former members or current members of our armed forces. We must be sensitive to anything which may HURT them. I for one don't have any problem insulting our enemies. Why should I? (c) Only academics who live in a 'hypothetical world' can believe that a one can promote an anti-American film that promotes hatred of Americans abroad with, say, a film like "We Were Soldiers" or "Saving Private Ryan" as cinematic equals, and think nothing of it. Amazingly enough, persons who actually think like that, don't comprehend why anyone would be insulted or upset by that action. IMFDB needs the contributions of people, believe it or not, who DO NOT adhere to those tenets. (d) Case in point: No one has done it yet, but say if a film came out about the Rape of Nanking, where the story portrayed the Chinese victims as the bad guys and the Japanese Invaders as innocent bystanders, I'm sorry to say we would probably be forced to write a disclaimer at least pointing out that such a film does not reflect the opinions in any way of IMFDB or it's members. The same as a film which would SUPPORT the Third Reich's Final Solution (if a film were to be made). As a purely academic exercise we would list the film, but we should make a statement that we in no way condone the film. That's just common sense. The world is NOT devoid of emotion or strong feelings. IMFDB walks the line just fine, IMHO. --EDIT--- Here is a quote from Wikipedia, there are others from overseas press of Muslims expressing their intent to 'kill Americans' because of the film "Redacted" Frankfurt killing of U.S. airmen On March 2, 2011 a man killed two U.S. airmen at Frankfurt Airport in Germany. The suspect was identified as 21-year-old Arid Uka, a German citizen of Albanian descent, who had worked at the airport. Uka claimed that he shot the soldiers because of a video he had watched on YouTube the day before, which supposedly showed U.S. soldiers raping a Muslim girl.[30] The March 6th 2011 edition of the German TV show Spiegel TV Magazin identified the video as a clip from the movie Redacted.[31] Last edited by MoviePropMaster2008; 06-05-2011 at 09:35 PM. |
#3
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Preach it Reverand MPM, Preach it!
Your points are exactly why we have the disclaimer and as i said there are other disclaimers about anti-gun films. Tec-9 seems to want to push his own biased political agenda on the rest of us and I'll admit that I shouldn't have called him a son of a donkey but his behavior is borderline trolling. Basically what he has done is to go onto a website and start spouting opinions that are opposed to that of the majority of the users of the webpage. It would be like me going onto a Christian website and start posting Athiest propoganda. |
#4
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To be honest, this guy is a troll, plain and simple. He's made less than 100 edits in two years with his last one before this in March (and a grand total of three edits during the whole of 2010). If you want to know his angle on this, here he tells us he's an Iraqi. And with this: Quote:
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Now if, as above, we had The Birth of a Nation (or Triumph of the Will, The Eternal Jew (the 1940 one), or whatever) up here with no disclaimer, he might be in a position to claim bias. But there's otherwise no equivalency, and I only suggested he might be allowed a disclaimer because I was tired and not really thinking straight. Movies like Redacted are propaganda by design (another such example would be The Trial of Billy Jack, which seriously suggested Washington ordered My Lai and showed a National Guardsman being ordered to open fire on an unarmed kid during a campus riot by a superior holding his sidearm to the guy's head) and should be treated as such, and it's ridiculous to go onto an American-run site and expect any signs of American-ness to be carefully hidden so as not to offend him with their horrible patriotism. Quote:
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Ban him. He clearly has no desire to work with anyone else on this site, so let's let him take his awesome brain somewhere us fumbling apemen won't bother it. Last edited by Evil Tim; 06-06-2011 at 09:28 AM. |
#5
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Can we just explain our objections in the intro, including the two deaths that this film has directly contributed to? I'd be happy to whip one up.
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"Me fail English? That's unpossible!" |
#6
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Don't change anything until others have had a chance to think about the matter. And it's not only 2 deaths. It's much more. But I don't think we need to start chronicling all the death and mayhem 'inspired' by the film since some of that is 'arguable' and we don't need to go down that road either.
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#7
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(1.) This Tec-9 dude is wrong (IMO), but I would appreciate it if you guys would stop using his behavior as an excuse to bash university students and academics. In case you've all forgotten, I am a graduate student, and I'm not a leftist. Also, if Tec-9 thinks his education automatically makes his opinions superior to ours, he'll have to argue his way past me first (and while I don't know for sure, I can almost assure you that the university where I'm doing my M.A. is ranked considerably above his own).
(2.) It is one thing to use the forum for debates (provided they don't degenerate into personal attacks and name-calling, which used to happen with BurtReynoldsMustache), but the site itself is for gun IDs only. The discussion pages should only be used for this purpose, not debating politics. I really wish you guys had just told Tec-9 to shut up and take it to the forum, and deleted his comments, instead of participating. (3.) While I have zero respect for Tec-9's politics or his opinion of U.S. soldiers, I do think that it is somewhat unnecessary to have a disclaimer on the "Redacted" page. IMFDB exists to document guns in films/TV/video games only; the inclusion of anti-gun or anti-military media on the site should not be mistaken for anything other than completion purposes (as opposed to our political leanings). We can add this (or some equivalent universal disclaimer) in an appropriate heading on the Rules, Standards, and Principles page, but anyone who thinks that our page for "Redacted" indicates our support for Brian De Palma's politics needs their head examined anyway (IMO). Isn't it fairly intuitive that someone who would contribute to a site such as IMFDB would lean to the right on the political spectrum, and therefore find "Redacted" to be abhorrent?
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Cry "Havoc," and let slip the hogs of war. Last edited by MT2008; 06-06-2011 at 06:53 PM. |
#8
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For your consideration: "'Redacted' is a 2007 film that is fictionalized account of the Mahmudiyah killings that occurred during the Iraq War, by writer and director Brian De Palma. The film was met with mixed reviews and extremely poor box office sales, with a total worldwide gross of less than a million dollars. This film has been criticized for it's depiction of American servicemen, with a some going as far as accusing writer/director Brian De Palma and producer Mark Cuban of treason. Some have also criticized the film for not showing any repercussions of the crimes themselves, as the perpetrators of the actual Mahmudiyah killings received harsh sentences, ranging from 27 months for obstruction of justice to life imprisonment without possibly of parole for the ringleader. There was also the fear that the movie could incite violence towards Americans. These fears were realized in March of 2010 when two American airmen were killed and two others wounded in an attack allegedly perpetrated by a Islamic extremist who had watched a clip from this film on Youtube. The following guns were used in the film Redacted"
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"Me fail English? That's unpossible!" |
#9
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A man's got to know his limitations. |
#10
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Oh, and Evil Tim, I appreciate your refutation of Tec-9's comments, but you do realize you're preaching to the choir, right?
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Cry "Havoc," and let slip the hogs of war. |
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