Lack of Classic Guns

Nowadays in movies and TV, you mostly see Glocks, and often times SIGs and HKs. I don't really have anything wrong with these guns (I think Glocks are a bit ugly looking, but they are reliable), but in movies, there has been a lack of "Classic guns", or rather, classic guns having a big role in the movie, not like being used by some extra or being used by a main character, but not really being synonymous with a character. We all remember "Lethal Weapon". The Beretta 92FS was synonymous with Det. Martin Riggs. Now it has become the most popular choice of movie extras. And I don't even remember the last time I saw a Browning Hi-Power being used by a main character.

1911's and revolvers are still present, somewhat. Sometimes you'll get a movie like "Sin City" that really knows how to show off the 1911. But, even so, their presence in movies is declining. And sometimes a really great gun based on a classic design isn't used often. For instance, I can't believe I barely see S&W 686P. That is a great gun, but it isn't very much valued in the movie community.

Now, I understand that the reason these guns aren't in movies as much is because Glocks, SIGs and HKs are more modern design. But even so, nowadays, these guns don't usually become characters of their own. It's just a tool that a main character uses to shoot people. The classics I've mentioned above have previously become famous for being movie characters and not just "tools of the trade" of a character, if that makes sense.

Anyway, I just figured I'd express my opinion.

[predator20]

It's really out with the old, in with the new with movies. Another thing really common is black synthetic furniture, no more wood stocks. Unless it's a period piece, you won't see much classics. It's a shame really, probably just collecting dust in an armory. The only time I see a revolver used by a main character, is by the sheriff or deputy of a small town.

Yeah, exactly. And you don't see to many of those movies anymore, unless they're movies that take place in the past (like "No Country For Old Men"). I think a good example of the black synthetic vs wood is "Miami Vice". In Seasons 1 and 2, the Mossbergs that the Vice cops carried were wood, but toward the end of Season 2 and on, they became black synthetic. This was the start of that trend it would seem.

[MT2008]

Part of the reason why the Beretta 92F became such a "character" in movies is because of its inherent qualities - namely, its distinctive shape and its 15-shot magazine. When the 92F started appearing in movies in the mid- to late-80s, "Wonder Nines" were a new trend on the handgun market (not exactly revolutionary, but it seemed that way), so that by itself is what helped make the Beretta into a character of its own. Problem is, there haven't really been any equally major trends in the handgun market since then, so there isn't necessarily any pistol that would have the same sort of appeal. Personally, I keep waiting for the FN Five-Seven to take that role, but so far it hasn't (Steve has explained to us that this is because the Five-Seven is difficult to convert to blank-fire). But nonetheless, the Five-Seven is the only pistol on the handgun market right now which represents a concept as novel for today as the 92F represented for the 1980s.

So that's the big part of the problem...there just aren't many pistols out there which seem as state-of-the art AND sexy as the Beretta 92F did 20 years ago. Remember when Riggs said, "9mm Beretta...15 in the clip, one up the pipe"? In 1987, most American cops were still carrying 6-shot revolvers, so that by itself made his gun sound extra special. If you had a character in a movie today, what could he say about his pistol that would make it seem unique and distinctive?

-".40-caliber Glock...15 in the clip, one up the pipe." Problem is, every cop in the U.S. today carries the same gun, with the same qualities.

-What about, ".45-caliber HK45, 10 in the clip, one up the pipe." Again, nothing sounds special about that.

You see my point? What would the main character say about the gun that would make it seem as cool (to laymen) as the Beretta sounded in 1987? Well, again..."FN Five-Seven...20 shots of 5.7x28mm, the new cartridge capable of penetrating vests." (and yes, I know this isn't exactly true, but we all know that's how Hollywood would portray it) Again, so far, the Five-Seven hasn't had many takers in Hollywood yet, though maybe some day this will change.

Also, contrary to what you said, 1911s are clearly not a declining presence in movies. If anything, they're actually experiencing something of a revival lately. Look at TV shows like "The Unit" which features the latest Kimber 1911 derivatives as the lead actors' sidearms. Not to mention that Keanu Reeves carried a custom 1911 in "Street Kings", and Angelina Jolie heavily used the Safari Arms Matchmaker in "Wanted". If anything, it seems to me that the new 1911s might be starting to fill the void that was left by the Beretta 92F, though there isn't really one specific make or model that's caught the attention of filmmakers.

[k9870]

I want to see a thug pull out a hi-point instead of a beretta 92fs. Or a lorcin or some crap. Mix in a little realism.

[predator20]

Originally Posted by MT2008

So that's the big part of the problem...there just aren't many pistols out there which seem as state-of-the art AND sexy as the Beretta 92F did 20 years ago. Remember when Riggs said, "9mm Beretta...15 in the clip, one up the pipe"? In 1987, most American cops were still carrying 6-shot revolvers, so that by itself made his gun sound extra special. If you had a character in a movie today, what could he say about his pistol that would make it seem unique and distinctive?

Also, contrary to what you said, 1911s are clearly not a declining presence in movies. If anything, they're actually experiencing something of a revival lately. Look at TV shows like "The Unit" which features the latest Kimber 1911 derivatives as the lead actors' sidearms. Not to mention that Keanu Reeves carried a custom 1911 in "Street Kings", and Angelina Jolie heavily used the Safari Arms Matchmaker in "Wanted". If anything, it seems to me that the new 1911s might be starting to fill the void that was left by the Beretta 92F, though there isn't really one specific make or model that's caught the attention of filmmakers.

In Lethal Weapon Murtaugh actually said "15 in the mag", not clip. Which is surprising since the overused and incorrect term is clip. While there was the Wonder Nines of the '80's Beretta, Glock. The Hi-Power is a 13 shot pistol it came out in 1935. I consider it the first Wonder Nine. It's always overlooked. But like you said the Wonder Nines weren't all that revolutionary as they were portrayed in the '80's.

While the 1911 still has usage in new films, they are all almost always custom. No bone stock GI models.

Originally Posted by k9870

I want to see a thug pull out a hi-point instead of a beretta 92fs. Or a lorcin or some crap. Mix in a little realism.

I was watching an episode of The Shield and a Mexican thug pulls a chrome Lorcin on Mackey. Surprised the hell out of me.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by predator20

In Lethal Weapon Murtaugh actually said "15 in the mag", not clip. Which is surprising since the overused and incorrect term is clip.

Ah, good call. Well, that's what I get for not taking 2 seconds to look it up on IMDB.

Originally Posted by predator20

While there was the Wonder Nines of the '80's Beretta, Glock. The Hi-Power is a 13 shot pistol it came out in 1935. I consider it the first Wonder Nine. It's always overlooked. But like you said the Wonder Nines weren't all that revolutionary as they were portrayed in the '80's.

Exactly, and I have always wondered why it took so long for Wonder Nines to catch on. But that's how it was in the 1980s. Before the Beretta 92F, most people who thought of handguns had revolvers in mind. So the 92F seemed like something special and innovative even though it was really just old re-packaged as new.

Originally Posted by predator20

While the 1911 still has usage in new films, they are all almost always custom. No bone stock GI models.

There are plenty of pretty bare-bones models. Especially in Seagal movies. Anyway, that is to be expected since Picatinny rails, compensators, and other such features are the new trends of the handgun market nowadays. But the 1911 as a platform is as unlikely to lose popularity in movies as in real life.

[predator20]

Originally Posted by MT2008

Ah, good call. Well, that's what I get for not taking 2 seconds to look it up on IMDB.

Yeah the Hi-Powers big moment got stuck with clip. Gun Clerk: "That's a 14 shot clip. You expecting an army?" Serpico: "No, just a division."

Originally Posted by MT2008

Exactly, and I have always wondered why it took so long for Wonder Nines to catch on. But that's how it was in the 1980s. Before the Beretta 92F, most people who thought of handguns had revolvers in mind. So the 92F seemed like something special and innovative even though it was really just old re-packaged as new.

It really was old repackaged as new. The original 92 came out in '76, I think it was. It was based off the M1951. I think the military adopting it, gave its popularity.

Originally Posted by MT2008

There are plenty of pretty bare-bones models. Especially in Seagal movies. Anyway, that is to be expected since Picatinny rails, compensators, and other such features are the new trends of the handgun market nowadays. But the 1911 as a platform is as unlikely to lose popularity in movies as in real life.

You still watch Seagal films? I hadn't watched a new one in 10 years. Same goes for Van-Damme too.

[Jcordell]

When they were filing the remake of Dawn of the Dead the directer (Zack Snyder) supposedly told the armorer that he wanted his characters to have firearms that average folks were likely to have. So all the fancy semi-autos and H&K smgs went away and in came the S&W Model 28. Model 10/13 and the Model 66 snubbie. Only Ving Rhames has a Remington 870 with a synthetic stock and flashlight and the street hood as the Beretta 92.

I liked that.

One of the reasons why I like the "old" cop movies from the sixties and seventies is the heavy presence of revolvers, shotguns etc. In some of the movies like Magnum Force the actors are using models that were getting old by the time the movie was filmed.

The old shows like Wanted: Dead or ALive and Paladin: Have Gun will Travel had firearms that were part of the characters. Of course Inspector Callahan with his Model 29 and even Quigly with his Sharps repeater.

In my opinion the movies (and television) has lost a little zip that the older productions had. It all black plastic and synthetic nowdays.

Oh well.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by predator20

You still watch Seagal films? I hadn't watched a new one in 10 years. Same goes for Van-Damme too.

If they're on USA, and I'm bored enough...yeah, sometimes. Then again, I am a masochist when it comes to movies (I've also managed to sit through two Uwe Boll films).

As for Van Damme, "JCVD" is actually pretty good, though in a bunch of ways that are mostly unintentional. I doubt the new "Universal Soldier" movie he's working on will be any good, though...

Originally Posted by Checkman

When they were filing the remake of Dawn of the Dead the directer (Zack Snyder) supposedly told the armorer that he wanted his characters to have firearms that average folks were likely to have. So all the fancy semi-autos and H&K smgs went away and in came the S&W Model 28. Model 10/13 and the Model 66 snubbie. Only Ving Rhames has a Remington 870 with a synthetic stock and flashlight and the street hood as the Beretta 92.

I liked that.

Which is kind of unrealistic in its own way. I personally know dozens of "average folks" who own semi-auto AKs, AR-15s, and other "military-style" semi-autos. They're becoming much more common amongst American gun owners nowadays, moreso than in the past.

That's the problem with Hollywood and the way they depict gun ownership. Either they show average people using nothing about hunting rifles, shotguns, and revolvers (while only police/military types get the latest semi-auto pistols and assault weapons), or they show criminals going into gun stores and buying fully automatic weapons as if to imply that this happens in real life. In other words, two different extremes that don't represent reality. It's not like they'd ever show "good" average guys legitimately owning using semi-auto AR-15s to protect themselves, like many folks I know. Only BGs and government types get to use the nasty black rifles in Hollywoodland. Nobody else.

Originally Posted by Checkman

One of the reasons why I like the "old" cop movies from the sixties and seventies is the heavy presence of revolvers, shotguns etc. In some of the movies like Magnum Force the actors are using models that were getting old by the time the movie was filmed.

The old shows like Wanted: Dead or ALive and Paladin: Have Gun will Travel had firearms that were part of the characters. Of course Inspector Callahan with his Model 29 and even Quigly with his Sharps repeater.

In my opinion the movies (and television) has lost a little zip that the older productions had. It all black plastic and synthetic nowdays.

Oh well.

It's kind of strange that you say that, because I feel the same way about movies nowadays. Personally, I liked the "older" action movies from the late-1980s and 1990s when the Beretta 92F was the handgun that everyone used. Not sure why, but there's just something I find a lot more appealing about the earlier Wonder Nines in action. Maybe it's just childhood nostalgia.

Oh, yes, and I also miss how, in the 1990s movies, it used to be that every single subgun was either an Uzi or an MP5, and every assault rifle was an M16 or an AK. The newer weapons like the FN P90 and UMP and MP7 just don't have the same on-screen appeal.

Originally Posted by ShootingJames

Politics is also a factor today. They don't make the guns "characters" because they don't want that kind of attention on the film. They don't want the guns to be the focus in any way shape or form. More than likely the producers and the director are anti-gun anyway.

Yeah, but this wasn't exactly that much different in the 1980s than today. The "Lethal Weapon" movies (and remember that Gunman specifically cited those as examples in the beginning) were all filmed by a liberal, anti-gun director, and yet they're part of the reason that the Beretta became so popular.

I also find it hard to imagine that politics play into it because of how many films I see where it's obvious that the director has a fixation upon the firearms. You can always tell that the director likes the guns when they show lots of close-ups of the weapon being loaded/cocked, or just handled in general. An example I always think of is F. Gary Gray, who's quite liberal in real life. Yet his movie "The Negotiator" is basically two and a half hours of SIG P226 worship, or maybe even fetishism (check it out if you don't believe me).