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Originally Posted by Excalibur
Why is your revolver using FMJs...
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In short, I use FMJs in my revolver because of its barrel length and its age. The .38 Special cartridge is great when you use hot and heavy hollow point loads out of a 4 inch barrel, but using them in a J frame snub is a different story. From what I have read, the short barrel of a J frame generally does not allow for standard pressure hollow point loads to get moving fast enough to reliably expand in tissue, or to penetrate 12 inches of tissue as deemed necessary by the FBI testing protocol. I've found that you can come close to or exceed the 12 inch penetration and get reliable expansion by using 158 Grain Lead Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point +P loads (LSWCHP+P, what a mouthful), but that's where my guns age comes into effect. Most recommend not using +P loads in small older guns not designed for +P. Some of my other reading shows that many people shoot the 158 Grain LSWCHP+P out of vintage snubs without a problem, and that +P loads today are not as hot as ones that were loaded 30 years ago when revolvers fell out of vogue for this and other reasons, but I'd rather not chance it sine the gun would be a bit hard to replace.
They also make standard pressure 158 Grain LSWCHP loads, but they are just beyond the edge of 12 inches of penetration from what I have seen, and they aren't as abundant in the market as I'd like them to be. I'm also somewhat hesitant to shoot lead bullets through the gun for fear of lead deposits in the rifling. Also, the 158s are also in a different grainage than my current target loads, and I try to standardize grainages/loads for my guns. I could buy 158 grain target rounds in bulk and standardize it, which is what I have done with 124 grain 9mm loads, but grainage does make a significant difference in recoil impulse in J frames being that they are small and not recoil operated. Frankly, I'm just not ready to invest in changing my revolver ammo right now, because of what I've read and because I have been throwing money at other things lately, namely my AR-15. I also want to get new guns that will possibly fill the roles I have set for myself better than the ones I have, which are basically collectibles. The thought of a new stainless pocket gun to replace the revolver and a full size gun to replace the P228 come to mind all the time. That or an extra Model 60 and/or P228.
So instead, I just carry an FMJ to guarantee penetration, as I have read that if you can only have penetration or expansion, it's better to have penetration (reference the 1986 Miami FBI Shootout). I use the PMC loads because they are the target loads I use for practice. I get them for 15 dollars a box at my local shooting range when they go on sale which is the cheapest I have found any .38 Special ammo, and they work 100 percent reliably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur
...and your 228 is using JHPs?
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I use Federal HST in the P228 because it has the best reputation for penetration and expansion in the market next to Winchester Ranger T (at least the 147 grain loads do), and I can get it in 50 round boxes relatively inexpensively. I don't trust the 3.9 inch barrel to get the proper velocity for reliable penetration/expansion, so I use the 124s to get a little extra speed. I trust 124 grain to work in shorter barreled guns as well, and if I get a pocket 9, then I can use the same ammo for that gun as well. They work 100 percent reliably in the gun too so no problems there.
Here are some protips from what I have written here so far/what I have learned from research and carry:
When buying ammo, consider the length of the barrel you will be firing it from, and how that affects the ability of certain loads to expand and penetrate effectively. You're probably better off using FMJ in a short barreled gun, especially in a "subcaliber" like .38 Special or .380ACP. Additionally, for self-loading guns in general, using FMJ will also inherently eliminate all reliability problems from feeding, granted you have a reliable gun from the start.
Consider standardizing your ammo type in terms of grainage, muzzle velocity and muzzle energy. This will make your target loads mirror the performance of your defensive loads so you can be confident that your gun will behave in the most familiar way possible should you have to use it.
Standardizing is easy if you buy in bulk on the internet and from a similar manufacturer. For example, I have Federal HST 124 Grain JHPs and Federal American Eagle 124 Grain FMJs which are loaded to the exact same velocity and energy numbers, and the case of American Eagle didn't cost significantly more than other offerings in the same grain.
Gun redundancy is something to consider if you are really invested/comfortable with a platform. If your go to is a Glock 19 for example, it might be good to have 2 in case one is out of commission for any reason.
Consider using something cool and patrician (a vintage Model 60 or P228) against using something stock and easy to replace (an run of the mill, current production Model 60 or M11A1). If you choose the former, be comfortable with the possibility that those guns may rust, get beat up, stolen, confiscated after a defensive shooting, or any number of other things that may result from carry. If that's no good for you, get current production stock guns.