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Old 05-11-2018, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&Wshooter View Post
Wrong, it's so training carries over AND so if one doesn't want to be stuck with a revolver, they aren't then stuck with a SAO handgun (of which there are only TWO common designs, the BHP and 1911, compared to the million and a half DA options). DA/SA allows the shooter to carry a gun that's immediately ready to shoot (requiring no fine motor control to make ready like a SAO), that ISN'T limited to just 5-6 shots, and that will have a fairly short trigger after the initial shot. Also with the DA/SA, you don't really need a safety, just decock before you holster; this is better than having to hit a lever before you fire like with a single action pistol, which most people won't remember to do under stress, or will be disregard in favor of carrying the gun hammer down.

If DA/SA was so bad, you wouldn't have seen the US Army trying to copy the P38 after WW2, then like 35 years of most everyone that knew better carrying S&W autos, SIGs, CZ's, and HKs. The 1911 fad came later, counter to popular belief, and a lot of the features (beavertail, raised sights, extended slide release and safety) common now to make them more suited as a fighting gun have their roots in customization made for competition shooting rather than a need to put people in the ground
The reason why people carried the 1911 hammer down is not on a live round or they're stupid because 1911s don't have hammer blocks if you ride the hammer down on a live round. Early US Army SOP with the 1911 was to carry it empty chamber with the hammer down. Later, they changed it to cocked and lock. A lot of Armies didn't trust semi autos even with manual safeties so when the DA/SA was invented, it gave them a hammer block when putting the weapon on safety, which drops the hammer during decock. Exceptions is the British and other countries with the Browning Hi-Power, a single action gun that's only been recently retired from the UK and for some reason, those guys train with carrying in condition 3.

I disagree. The US army is notorious for slow in adopting in any new equipment. Look at the the M16's history will tell you. By the time the 80s rolled around, they needed to replace all the 1911s that are still in inventory because they have not bought any new ones and had poorly maintained all of them. They wanted a 9mm to be friendly with NATO and Beretta won the contract because SIG didn't want to spend extra money to build a factory in America and cost more than the 92 that became the M9. The other guns that competed were Smith & Wesson Model 459A, P226, H&K P7M8 and P7M13, Walther P88, Steyr GB and FN ADA.

And what do you mean a 5-6 shot gun? By the beginning of WWII, most military forces had adopted guns that were at least 7 to 10 shots with the exceptions being the Russians still using the Nagant revolvers along said the Tokerov or the British Webley

The whole concept that with a DA/SA gun, you can carry it "ready to go" doesn't make sense. All handguns are designed to be chambered and carried ready. Most have safeties. Some don't. Glock became the first adopted service weapon to forgo any type of manual safety, which way back in the 1911 days was added at the request of the US Army and not because Browning first designed it.

The SIG being the only DA/SA gun that has no manual safety, all other handguns that have ever been adopted for use like the Beretta, HK, all the way back to the Walter P38 that popularized the DA/SA system has a manual safety with the decocker. So when operating those guns, you still need to take the gun off safe and pull the heavy double action.


I understand why you might think that adopting the DA/SA is to carry over from revolvers, but that only applies to US law enforcement and it's been a mix of revolvers and semi-autos for many years before recently retiring of all revolvers as main service weapons. Military from all around the world, especially the Germans and Italians that basically invented the DA/SA for semi-autos have long since stopped using revolvers prior to WWI (or popularized the adoption). The Great War was the age of military forces changing from revolvers to semi autos en masse except for a few countries like England.


I personally think DA/SA pistols have no place in modern shooting and should be pushed aside from systems like Glock. No manual safety to worry about flicking on or off and no heavy double action trigger and then inconsistently transition to a single action pull, which to the lowly trained soldier or police officer will throw off their first shots. This is a system only meant for people who put time training for it. This is why I don't recommend this type of gun for beginners and advocate training and practice if you want to carry a gun for protection.
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