[MT2008]

To get back on topic, I thought I would post a bit of a forum conversation we had over at HKPRO a while back. We were discussing the 416 and H&K's stupid decision to hold off on marketing the gun to civilians (this was 2006, and the MR223, now called the MR556, hadn't been introduced yet).

Anyway, while we were talking about why it is that H&K seems to be so averse to civilian sales of its long guns, someone said this:

HK's mission as a company is to produce the most innovative and reliable firearms in the industry. This niche is expensive, and therefore, excludes the mass market. They leave the "quantity market" to others, who are quite content to cut corners to keep prices down. That is fine, too. Not everyone wants to spend a lot of money on a Cadillac, when a Ford is quite satisfactory to drive to work.

Shooters are typically a very conservative bunch. Most of them are left unmoved by new, revolutionary advances in firearm technology. When something out of the ordinary comes up, their walls of resistance go up....

.....HK is not interested in a dog-eats-dog market. While they undoubtedly would like to have a bigger market share (hopefully, the US plant project will finally work out), I don't think they will ever abandon their mission of quality and innovation, even with a different management, in the future - at least I hope not.

Sowgood9mm (one of the best posters on the board, IMO) pretty much tore this guy's bullshit argument apart with the following:

I was going to stay out of this, but come on....

HK=Innovation and referring HK to Cadillac is just ridiculous in today's market terms.

If HK is stuck on making supreme "innovative" firearms for the "elite", then why did they "cut corners" and start making plastic guns ? Sure, we all can debate how they are "polymer" all day long, but in the end, they are plastic and have been reported to melt and crack. Is this moving "forward" for the sake of pushing the innovation/technology envelope, or to cut corners and cost ?

Ahhh, exactly.

Take away the fact that agencies have money invested in MP5 mags and accessories and tell me why they are not "upgrading" to the new Uber Spectacular, cutting edge and Innovative UMP ( which is still cheaper than MP5's ) ?

LEO's still prefer and buy the MP5 over the UMP even though it is more expensive, heavier and of "out dated" technology.

Can you explain why so many countries do not use the G36 and you only see them in movies ? Is this because they are more expensive than HK's older metal guns.... no. It's because HK "cut corners" and made a plastic gun so they could compete with the AR "types".... they failed in that respect.
Also, besides the super space age (plastic) polymer that they use, what make a G36 so special and ahead of it's time ? Nothing ! It uses Armalite / Stoner technology wrapped in plastic.

Tell me again why the G36 is no longer imported into the US ? Is the US M4 crazy ? No, the M4's are cheaper and will do everything the G36 will do.

Also, does anyone really wonder why the XM8 went down in flames... Besides the fact that HK had no domestic plant, it was just a G36 with a new body, and everyone here knows it. Eventually, the Government found out... and they weren't happy about it.

And my last point. If HK is serving the small, more expensive niche market to satisfy those who can truly respect and love a more advanced weapon, then why did they re-create the M16 ?

Why would they even think of doing such a thing when M16/4's can be had for such little money (everywhere). Who exactly was HK pitching this new ( read: old piston design) to anyway ?

Was the time spent (wasted) on re-inventing the wheel worth it to HK with the 416/417 ?

So if Sig, FN, Beretta, Glock are the "Fords" of the US, then I guess most of us had rather support them at this time. You cannot support a company that refuses to sell you items.

If HK is the Cadillac, then they should be like the Cadillac and go back to the 80's when they were once great. When they were repected more.

Also, you guys remember right after the AWB expired everyone was reaching out to HK to find out if we would ever see 9X guns again ? Remember what they posted on their US website... something to this effect: " We no longer have the equipment for those guns and we have Lost the Engineering Prowess to make them."

Yeah, that makes perfect sense....

So, you might want to reevalutate exactly what "HK's mission" is these days.

Everyone is here because they like HK toys... the only reason any bashing is going on is because the writing is all over the wall. If us simple folk can see their mistakes, then we can only hope that HK will eventually see them. HK would outsell most "new" guns in the US if they had a plant here and if prices were more competitive. There would be no compromise is quality... they would just be doing the most sensible thing for the company.