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Excalibur 01-09-2012 03:35 AM

I like the MP5. But since you can't get a civilian one for any reasonable price, might as well get the Kel Tec Sub 2000

SPEMack618 01-09-2012 05:48 PM

Se,, to me the problem with the MP-5, and even the UMP series t some extent is that the time of the sub gun has pasted.

With the rise of modern body armor, and the taking hold of the PDW concept, the place for a 9mm sub gun is growing slim.

The Wierd It 01-10-2012 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEMack618 (Post 33818)
Se,, to me the problem with the MP-5, and even the UMP series t some extent is that the time of the sub gun has pasted.

With the rise of modern body armor, and the taking hold of the PDW concept, the place for a 9mm sub gun is growing slim.

Except when you want to go subsonic or don't want to risk penetration based collateral.

SPEMack618 01-10-2012 04:50 PM

And that is when I champion the UMP-45.

If you want subsonic, and minor collateral, then the .45 ACP is the way to go.

AdAstra2009 01-14-2012 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 33808)
I like the MP5. But since you can't get a civilian one for any reasonable price, might as well get the Kel Tec Sub 2000

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct862.aspx

Yournamehere 01-15-2012 01:03 AM

There's hardly a comparison between an HK94 style gun and a SUB-2000, aside from them being in the same class and caliber. Even so, HK94 style guns are few and expensive no matter what the make. I'd personally hunt down an Uzi Carbine for a decent price and be content. The USC, the civilian UMP, is surely fine too, but the cost of .45 ACP ammo as a civ is significantly higher than 9mm with not much more penetrative or ballistic power. My thought is that you don't really go for a 9mm or any pistol caliber subgun unless you don't want to penetrate something, which is a real concern for police agencies, so they still do have a niche.

If you absolutely have to have decent penetration, get a mid-powered rifle caliber carbine of some sort in a common caliber (AR-15 in 5.56 for example). Ammo costs will be more reasonable than PDW calibers and it offers more penetrative potential than pistol caliber carbines.

Excalibur 01-16-2012 03:51 PM

I am in the process of buying an 870. Right now it's just a plain jane with an extended tube. I plan to put more on it in the future. Pics up when I get it.

Excalibur 01-19-2012 12:17 AM

And here it is, my new shotgun. This is what it looks like now. In the coming year, I'll be doing a couple things to it

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...1/P1010003.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...1/P1010004.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...1/P1010005.jpg

k9870 01-19-2012 03:47 PM

looks good to me, i dont like pressure switches on a pump gun but a cool package. What are you planning to upgrade with?

BTW benelli is making m4s that are not neutered and actually hold enough ammo, about time.

AdAstra2009 01-19-2012 07:45 PM

Is that an 18 or a 20 inch Barrel?


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