Concealed Carry General
 

What do you carry? How? What would you like to carry? Any thoughts?


I find myself thinking more and more about concealed carry now that I'm legally able to obtain a CCL, am curious as to what y'all think, carry, any stories you have, etc

I have a permit, but I usually don't. I find myself spending a lot of time crossing the river into NJ, which doesn't reciprocate, or in sleepy Bucks County, where there's little need to. Most locals I've discussed CC with say they only carry when they go into Philly, and of the few times I've actually carried, most have been when I go into Philly.

I carry a .38 snub, and I use either a IWB holster or a pocket holster, depending on what I'm wearing.

Well, I live in Indiana, so we got great gun laws, but only started carrying after college.

I usually carry a Glock 19 with a spare full size magazine that has a plus 2 base plate. I wear an OWB holster made by Bravo Concealment. Very good solid kydex holsters.

Regardless if it's night or day, I always have my Surefire G2X with me and a knife. I got this old Gerber applegate. Been meaning to get a new one.

I've been thinking of getting a smaller slimmer gun for summer carry recently but with the weather being weird and not hot, I've been passing it by.


Best advice is to do your own research, go to gun stores to get a feel for which one you like. Take all advices from shop owners, cops, military guys and even instructors with a grain of salt. What works for them might not work for you and everybody has an opinion.

If you are a new shooter, I suggest getting some CCW type training and practicing with whatever gun you get. Make sure it works for you. That is important. Does it fit with your clothes? Can you draw it out quickly and into action? Can you reload or deal with malfunctions with it? Try it out at the range. See if the range you go to have guns that you might consider and try those out. Don't just shoot you gun at the range, fight with your gun to test yourself.

I've been meaning to get a picture of my EDC together and this gives me the perfect reason to do so. This is what I carry on a daily basis:

http://i.imgur.com/GLz0mrc.jpg

The only caveat is that I don't carry both guns (I've done it, but I can count on my hand how many times I have). I either carry one gun or the other. Besides that, I carry everything you see in the picture every day with 5.11 Taclite Pro Pants and an Ares Gear Ranger Belt. Here's a list of everything:

Watch with Paracord Band and Paracord Bracelet (made by me)
Surefire 6PX Tactical with click tailcap and Costa Switchback
1993 SIG-Sauer P228 with SRT and stainless grip screws
Federal HST 124 Grain JHP (40 rounds, 13 per mag and 1 in the chamber)
RDR Custom Kydex IWB Holster for SIG-Sauer P228 (for deep concealment)
Raven Concealment Phantom OWB Holster for SIG-Sauer P228 (for comfortable concealment, starting to use this more now actually)
1977 S&W Model 60 No-Dash with Uncle Mikes Boot Grips
PMC 132 Grain FMJ (15 rounds, 10 rounds per speedloader and 5 in the cylinder)
DeSantis Nemesis Pocket Holster for S&W Model 60
Leatherman Wave with Bit Kit, Bit Extension, and a Streamlight Microstream in a Leatherman Pouch
3x SIG-Sauer P228 magazines (1 in the gun and 2 extra)
Safariland 079 Concealment Double Mag Pouch in STX Tactical finish to match haircell kydex holsters
Safariland Comp-1 Speedloaders
Bianchi 7301 Speedloader Pouch
Keyring
Sharpie Stainless Steel Fine Felt Tip Pen
8 year old iPod Classic
Samsung Galaxy S5 with Spigen Tough Armor Case (Black) and Spigen GLAS.tR Slim screen protector
Little Black Book
Pack of Gum
Oakley Soft Case and Oakley Hijinx Matte Black with Polarized Warm Grey Lenses
Kershaw Skyline
Maxpedition Micro Pocket Organizer with USB 3.0 stick, spare batteries (AAx2, AAAx2, and CR123x2), bandages, alcohol pads, Blue Force Gear Lip Balm, black BIC Lighter, headphones, eye drops and contact lens case
Glasses
Black bandana
Columbia Extra Capacity Slim Fold Wallet in Black

There are a handful of things I want to and have been trying to change but this is what I carry every day. I'll make a second post with some general recommendations for you while you sit in complete and utter disbelief at my plethora of EDC items.

Why is your revolver using FMJs and your 228 is using JHPs? Does hollow points not work in your revolver? And even if you use ball, why PMCs?

In short, I use FMJs in my revolver because of its barrel length and its age. The .38 Special cartridge is great when you use hot and heavy hollow point loads out of a 4 inch barrel, but using them in a J frame snub is a different story. From what I have read, the short barrel of a J frame generally does not allow for standard pressure hollow point loads to get moving fast enough to reliably expand in tissue, or to penetrate 12 inches of tissue as deemed necessary by the FBI testing protocol. I've found that you can come close to or exceed the 12 inch penetration and get reliable expansion by using 158 Grain Lead Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point +P loads (LSWCHP+P, what a mouthful), but that's where my guns age comes into effect. Most recommend not using +P loads in small older guns not designed for +P. Some of my other reading shows that many people shoot the 158 Grain LSWCHP+P out of vintage snubs without a problem, and that +P loads today are not as hot as ones that were loaded 30 years ago when revolvers fell out of vogue for this and other reasons, but I'd rather not chance it sine the gun would be a bit hard to replace.

They also make standard pressure 158 Grain LSWCHP loads, but they are just beyond the edge of 12 inches of penetration from what I have seen, and they aren't as abundant in the market as I'd like them to be. I'm also somewhat hesitant to shoot lead bullets through the gun for fear of lead deposits in the rifling. Also, the 158s are also in a different grainage than my current target loads, and I try to standardize grainages/loads for my guns. I could buy 158 grain target rounds in bulk and standardize it, which is what I have done with 124 grain 9mm loads, but grainage does make a significant difference in recoil impulse in J frames being that they are small and not recoil operated. Frankly, I'm just not ready to invest in changing my revolver ammo right now, because of what I've read and because I have been throwing money at other things lately, namely my AR-15. I also want to get new guns that will possibly fill the roles I have set for myself better than the ones I have, which are basically collectibles. The thought of a new stainless pocket gun to replace the revolver and a full size gun to replace the P228 come to mind all the time. That or an extra Model 60 and/or P228.

So instead, I just carry an FMJ to guarantee penetration, as I have read that if you can only have penetration or expansion, it's better to have penetration (reference the 1986 Miami FBI Shootout). I use the PMC loads because they are the target loads I use for practice. I get them for 15 dollars a box at my local shooting range when they go on sale which is the cheapest I have found any .38 Special ammo, and they work 100 percent reliably.

I use Federal HST in the P228 because it has the best reputation for penetration and expansion in the market next to Winchester Ranger T (at least the 147 grain loads do), and I can get it in 50 round boxes relatively inexpensively. I don't trust the 3.9 inch barrel to get the proper velocity for reliable penetration/expansion, so I use the 124s to get a little extra speed. I trust 124 grain to work in shorter barreled guns as well, and if I get a pocket 9, then I can use the same ammo for that gun as well. They work 100 percent reliably in the gun too so no problems there.


Here are some protips from what I have written here so far/what I have learned from research and carry:

When buying ammo, consider the length of the barrel you will be firing it from, and how that affects the ability of certain loads to expand and penetrate effectively. You're probably better off using FMJ in a short barreled gun, especially in a "subcaliber" like .38 Special or .380ACP. Additionally, for self-loading guns in general, using FMJ will also inherently eliminate all reliability problems from feeding, granted you have a reliable gun from the start.

Consider standardizing your ammo type in terms of grainage, muzzle velocity and muzzle energy. This will make your target loads mirror the performance of your defensive loads so you can be confident that your gun will behave in the most familiar way possible should you have to use it.

Standardizing is easy if you buy in bulk on the internet and from a similar manufacturer. For example, I have Federal HST 124 Grain JHPs and Federal American Eagle 124 Grain FMJs which are loaded to the exact same velocity and energy numbers, and the case of American Eagle didn't cost significantly more than other offerings in the same grain.

Gun redundancy is something to consider if you are really invested/comfortable with a platform. If your go to is a Glock 19 for example, it might be good to have 2 in case one is out of commission for any reason.

Consider using something cool and patrician (a vintage Model 60 or P228) against using something stock and easy to replace (an run of the mill, current production Model 60 or M11A1). If you choose the former, be comfortable with the possibility that those guns may rust, get beat up, stolen, confiscated after a defensive shooting, or any number of other things that may result from carry. If that's no good for you, get current production stock guns.

^wow thats alot of text, and alot of stuff for edc.

I carry a Smith & Wesson 3913 TSW pre-rail with a 7 round magazine without the finger extension loaded with 7 + 1 rounds of 9mm Hornady XTP JHP rounds standard Novak white dot sights. I don't carry a spare magazine on my person but I keep 2 extra 7 round magazines in the glove box of my vehicle. I carry everyday everywhere and I just don't care to have a lot of stuff in my pockets. I carry it in a clip on leather IWB holster made for the 3913. I carry because of my job and because I know that anything can happen to anyone anywhere and its not going to be me.

As far as what I would like to carry the S&W 3913 in my opinion is the perfect handgun for concealed carry as it is one of the most accurate handguns I have ever fired functions smoothly, has a perfect snag free profile for concealed carry, very limited recoil, great trigger pull. Only drawback is that Smith & Wesson discontinued support for them so its gonna suck when I need to find spare parts for repair, that and its getting kind of rough looking from holster wear. If I can find a 3913 NL/LS for a decent price or a full size 3913 (8 round magazine) for a good price then maybe Id replace it. I actually bought a Glock 26 Gen 4 for a great deal $450 but I never bothered switching over because the 3913 fits me like a glove.

I wouldn't mind getting a nice shoulder holster, heard they're a bit better if you have back issues

Alot better for drawing when your sitting in the driver's seat as well. Only real problem is you can never take off your jacket/overgarment.

Shoulder holsters are good for driving and bad for about everything else.
Of most concern is the design. You have to worry about proper fitting to your body, as well as wearing generous attire to properly conceal it.
Most quality models have the gun pointing outward, so you'll be muzzling everyone around you when you walk around with it holstered, and when you draw the gun. You also have the potential to muzzle your support arm as you draw if you don't train extensively. Just as well, most quality shoulder holster options don't offer passive retention models, meaning you will be stuck with an active retention holster and have to fumble with a button to get your gun out. This, combined with the awkward angle of the draw and the leather makeup of the holster makes for a far more complicated draw than waist or other systems. Leather has also fallen by the wayside as a holster material because of its limited lifespan and tendency to retain water and particulate, and the common quality shoulder rigs are leather. A hot Texas climate will amplify all the negative feelings of the design as well.

They are likely to be worse on your back than a waistband holster or other option too. Think about it, you are now taking the weight of your gun and spare ammunition and supporting them with your shoulders and back instead of your belt around your waist/hips. You also have to tack on the weight of the overall rig as opposed to just the holster/carrier, and the pressure that the rig exerts, which could be quite a bit if the rig is tight as it ought to be.

I can see how a cop would like one since they are probably in a car all day and they don't really need to worry about concealment, but they are usually a bad option for concealed carriers, especially in hot states. I've toyed with buying a Galco Miami Classic II a couple of times just to have the option, but I always change my mind because it's just not a useful product, and at its price point I could buy a lot of other stuff that would work much better or be more fun. Suffice it to say, I personally don't recommend shoulder holsters whatsoever if the goal is legitimate concealed carry.

Shoulder holsters can be useful but I wouldn't recommend them for the average joe. If you get a shoulder holster for serious use make sure its a good quality/expensive one and steer clear of UTG type nylon stuff (You should steer clear of nylon for holsters with the exception of some pocket holsters and ankle rigs). If a cop/detective carried his pistol in a shoulder holster he would likely get laughed at for looking too hollywood, Only people ive seen professionally use shoulder holsters for their sidearms are Army commisioned officers and Police Aviation officers.

If your getting a holster for concealed carry I'd recommend a leather or kydex Inside the Waistband (IWB) holster; And always make sure its made for that specific weapon or your not going to have good retention.

I've tried cross drawing a gun with a shoulder holster and it takes a bit of time to bring the gun at the ready. In a car, I've seen protective details do it if you are the driver and you stay in the car or also carry a primary subgun that hangs on your dominant side but for the average carrier, I think it's and old style holster.

Some people also have problems with holsters that have no "lock" on them, like either push a button or a switch or move a flap to get the gun out because they are afraid that in a struggle, the gun can drop and even with tough holsters like the Ravens other Kydex, there is a chance if you are in a fight, like if you are wrestling a guy and not minding your gun, it might get snagged out by something, but good kydex holsters have a pretty good retention even if you fall and tumble and I have seen guns do demos where they fall and tumble and the gun stays in.

I'm uncomfortable with holsters with no lock on them if the holster is owb/not concealed. If someone sneaks up on you (or if your waiting in a line or something) it shouldn't be a simple as pulling the gun out. IWB/concealed holsters are different and I consider the concealment to be the "lock".

A lot of classes will teach you how to defend yourself from getting your gun from being taken and it's about struggling against someone who is trying to take your gun. Though the purpose of concealed carry is concealment. If no one knows you are armed, they can't take your gun. That's the point of hiding the gun unless you want to open carry

Hence why I think open carry is stupid.

Okay most of those were excellent points, probably would do better with IWB; my question is, how much in general does such a setup press into/put pressure on your hip? My right side is worse about it than my left, but I am still somewhat concerned

I'll tell you what, trying to figure out a decent way to carry and working it around a back injury is a bitch; I'd rather not have to end up pocket carrying or something but it that's the way it is, then whatever

When I started carrying I had to go from a 32 to a 34 to allow room for IWB carry (I started with a S&W M&P 40) so unless you already dress in loose pants your going to probably have to buy new pants. With proper fitting pants for a IWB holster it doesn't press hard and you'll forget your carrying the gun. Get a compact/subcompact gun (wouldn't recommend anything less than .380 for a primary carry gun) and you'll forget your even carrying.

You'd need to get different pants for an IWB holster. Even with a slim gun, adding the holster will out extra push into the pants and might not work or be comfortable, so you'd need to get a pants size larger and a good belt as well.

If you have some kind of injury, even pocket carry might be a problem depending on speed because if you've practiced, even reaching into a pocket for your gun will send your body into that flight or fight mode and you can tense up and if you have some kind of old hurt, it will hurt. So it's best to work with your injury because if you need to fight, it will add to your hurt.

Until your back gets better, I'd say avoid making decisions based on your current situation unless your back hurting is going to be a life time of hurt that can't be fixed. In that case, I'd still recommend training with the injury in mind.

Again, pick a gun that you can be comfortable carrying, be it a compact/subcompact or pocket gun. Also make sure you can SHOOT the gun and be able to aim well. A lot of people pick little bitty pocket guns that have poor sights or so small, it can feel like the damn thing is going to fly off your hand. I've shot a lot of little .380s like the LCP, and the S&W Bodyguard .380 and they can feel tiny but shoot like a cannon.

Personally, I don't like .40 but I don't want to state "that debate" here.

I highly recommend for a "fighting gun" to be either a subcompact to a mid size compact like a Glock 19 instead of a pocket gun that's really meant as a backup gun. I've seen people carry full size guns and still hide them well. Some argue on whether or not you "need" all that ammo or a big gun but it's your preference.

Again, my personal preference is that for a first time CCW shouldn't use revolvers because I believe the discipline and training behind a revolver is different compared to an auto and also easier reloads for newer shooters than with a revolver.

But most importantly is to get training. I'm saving up money and time to attend some of the classes I've been watching that does more realistic CCW training than just standing still hitting paper.

I am quite literally missing some parts in my lower back, now. Good to know IWB won't press on me too much, though; took me 4 months to be able to wear a belt because of that.


I'm almost set on what I'd want to carry, still playing around with a few options. It will probably be a 9mm

If you're wearing a proper IWB setup in the proper way, it's gonna press on you to the point where it becomes uncomfortable, especially if you carry a bigger gun. I find that when I IWB my P228 that it either presses into me or sags my pants, and since I don't want my gun sagging or flopping about I cinch my belt down to keep it in place, forcing it to press into me. It's not nearly as comfortable as OWB carry but it's not unbearably uncomfortable either, but if you have a serious back problem then it doesn't sound like it's for you.

Consider OWB carry and wearing a baggy shirt or overshirt to aid concealment. I find that the gun is not much harder to conceal but it is a lot more comfortable than IWB for me. The biggest thing to look out for is the bottom of the holster peeking out of the bottom of your shirt, but if you wear something long/baggy enough or an overshirt or jacket then concealment is just fine. As far as the draw is concerned, it's not much harder to draw from concealment with a baggy/extra garment if you pay attention to your garment grab when you draw. This is slowly becoming my preference for larger gun carry.

Whether you go IWB or OWB (again, I recommend OWB if you can find a way to hide it), carrying a gun on your waist also pretty much forces you to wear an undershirt in order to protect your skin from the metal gun which will fluctuate in temperature from hot to cold depending on where you go throughout the day, and in order to protect the gun from your sweat. I'm pretty much forced to wear a tank top under my shirt when I carry my P228 and it just makes south Florida that much hotter for me.

Pocket carry is tricky but super doable if you have the right setup. I carry my Model 60 no matter what the weather is like outside and I don't every worry about printing or getting made or anything like that because my setup is so idiot proof. If you get a good pocket holster and a proper gun, then the gun profile will vanish in your pocket (granted you wear spacious pants with large, deep pockets and you don't have huge legs that will press against the gun when you sit or crouch or anything like that). My DeSantis Nemesis is a good little pocket holster and only about 20-25 bucks online, so I recommend that to people if they consider pocket carry. However, I have been looking into Remora as they offer custom options like mouth reinforcement for reholstering ease, and most importantly, sweat guards on the holster. Half the time I go to put my Model 60 away at the end of the day, there's a wet spot on the metal between where the holster ends and the grip begins and I have to wipe it off. It's a good thing the gun is stainless or it would have rusted something fierce by now. Pocket carry will assuredly slow your draw, but when it comes down to concealability and convenience it is the best method hands down. Also, always dedicate a pocket to carrying your gun and NOTHING ELSE. You should never put stuff in your pocket on top of your gun for any reason, especially since your draw stroke is already a bit slower. Go for something that has a good finish too, since the gun will probably be exposed to sweat or moisture being in a pocket so close to your leg.

As for pocket guns, depending on your pocket size you can get away with some pretty big stuff. I've entertained the notion of pocket carrying autos like the Kahr K9, the Beretta 84F, the S&W 3919 and the 6906, among others, and I have faith that they are all easily carried with the proper holster and pants. I don't recommend any micro autos in .380 or 9mm because even if they are highly concealable, they are just crappy guns. You have no real estate to grip them so reloading and clearing malfunctions sucks, and they are more likely to need reloading since their mags are so small, and more likely to fail since their tolerances are so tight. Worst of all, when you do fire them, they kick like a mule because the caliber they fire is too hot for their design, and you have no grip real estate. When I had my Walther PPK (which isn't even a really light subcompact at 21 ounces without ammo), it shot very accurately but it kicked worse than all of my full sized 9mms, and this was with warm .380ACP loads. I can only imagine how bad a P238 or Bodyguard is. So, while they may be easy to carry, they are bad at everything else, which I find unacceptable in a carry gun. Yeah you may find one that's reliable and that you can reload well (probably not), but you could probably find a bigger gun that fits in your pocket that can do those things too, and shoot better. Find that gun.

If you must go as small as you can, I recommend all steel .38 Special revolvers like J frames. There are a lot of downsides to them, but I still think they are overall the best micro guns for pocket carry or general concealment.
They can be grabbed by the cylinder and stopped dead in their tracks, but autos can be pushed out of battery leaving the same problem. Granted, a slide grab might give you one shot if the slide stays in battery, where a revolver is done if the cylinder is stopped, so take that as you will. You will also not be reloading them very quickly, even with speedloaders (don't even bother with speed strips, they are a slow and unreliable means of reloading and require too much technique to master next to speedloaders which will always be faster, more reliable and easier to master). A revolver hammer is a snag magnet as well, though you can go with hammerless options.
Despite these problems, a revolver will not have a magazine or recoil related malfunction like an autoloading gun, and it cannot be pushed out of battery in a really close engagement. Most importantly, as long as the cylinder/hammer remain free to move, you will have 5 rounds at your disposal regardless of where the gun is, under your shirt, in your pocket, whatever. This can make the difference in tight situations. Since I don't view micro guns as "fighting guns" but more like "at least I have a gun" guns, meaning they will work in a fight where reloads probably aren't necessary, and capacity between micro autos and snub revolvers is negligible, I find them to be the best bet for a super small gun. Avoid airweight and .357 Magnum snubs like the plague, though, because the former will kick like a mule and the latter doesn't offer much more ballistic performance than a .38 Special in a proper loading, and will kick like a mule.

Speed strips are a lot easier to conceal than speedloaders, IMHO. I can fit two of them in an old cell phone holster on my belt.

I'd like to think you wouldn't need more than five or six rounds in a self-defense situation though. If you need more, maybe you should reconsider going to wherever you're going.

My only real experience with concealed carry was with a vertical shoulder holster. For what I was using it for it worked perfectly well, mainly because I had to conceal a full size Browning Hi Power, and not being able to take my jacket (or an outer shirt depending on the weather) off wasn't really an issue as that concealed a whole bunch of other stuff like magazines, vest, radio, etc. I will say though that I did spend pretty much a solid day adjusting the thing to get it to the point where it was just right for me which is obviously not so much of an issue with a waist holster. I have tried IWB holsters, and to me they always seemed a hell of a lot less comfortable and harder to ignore than that shoulder holster, but this might just be that I would have to get used to them.

With your back injury, can you comfortably draw quickly from a normal strong side IWB position? Assuming you are carrying at around the 4 o'clock you will most likely have to twist your back slightly to get your hand to the grip, and particularly in a self defence situation I can imagine overdoing it to get the hand back to their gun and screwing your back up. At one point I had a herniated disc (luckily it was minor and pretty much fully healed without intervention in about 5 or 6 months), and while that was still giving me problems this was the case for me.

A shoulder holster (along with cross draw or appendix holsters) would have the advantage that you are just reaching across the front of your body without having to twist. A disadvantage though, I don't think a lot of ranges or classes will let you use a shoulder holster due to the fact that the muzzle will most likely (definitely in the case of a horizontal holster) be pointing behind you at some point during the draw. This means that it could be harder to practice live firing with it.

Another advantage of a shoulder holster if you are going for something like a Galco Miami Classic, is that it has built in magazine holders. This has a few advantage, first being that it balances up the holster making it more comfortable. Secondly, it is one less thing you have to find room for on your belt or in your pockets, along with the fact that it is a lot quicker to put on. A shoulder holster also has the advantage that there is no messing about with having to have the write trousers on or belt and you don't need to thread anything or do anything up (with the huge caveat though that you have to wear something over the top though).

I've been in a few situations in which I've needed to carry, what's worked best is IWB, front of hip left side, barrel pointing away from body. People say don't carry appendix, but I'm not pointing it into my body like a lot of people do so I don't see a problem. I mean, I can swing that fairly well under a hoodie or something, or if I had a smaller gun under a decent shirt

I and the few classes I have taken do not subscribe to mentality of "if you need more than X amount of bullets in a gun fight, you need to rethink your situation" or whatever variation of that line. I carry one spare mag with me and that's 19 extra rounds for if something's wrong with the mag I got in my gun other than it being empty, like a tac reload or malfunction. The mag I have in the gun is 15 and plus 1 in the chamber. Do I really need to use that many rounds in an actual fight, I don't know, I've never been in a gun fight. Every fight is different for you. It's best to be prepared. Now do I have a minigun in the trunk of my car and grenades down my pants? no, that's just silly and beyond the point. It's always about what you are prepared to do. I've seen guys that carry 2 spare mags or a backup gun as well and they don't feel over dressed but that's their preference.

I can't do appendix carry because I got a gut. It just doesn't work for me.

Same logic why I only carry my handgun with it's 7+1 rounds of 9mm and no extra magazines. I'm not looking for trouble and the gun is only for me to get away alive.

Call this rhetoric but this is what has always made sense to me. If it's ever worth carrying a gun, then it's worth carrying the biggest gun you can with the most rounds you can carry as long as it doesn't compromise concealment. The whole reason one carries is because they want to be prepared for any sort of attack they may come across, and attacks come in all shapes and sizes with any number of assailants or weapons, and it's not something you can predict. If you believe in preparedness as an extension of concealed carry, you shouldn't opt for under-preparedness in favor of preparedness. This is the same logic people use to justify not carrying a gun at all. At the end of the day, if you value your life and subscribe to the philosophical aspects of carry, you should not find arbitrary reasons to minimize your shooting capabilities. You will not be pulling out gunfight statistics when you are accosted by one man with a knife or 5 thugs with guns, you will be pulling out your gun. Make sure your gun is the right one. Or that your conveyance of your statistical analysis is damn convincing.

There are plenty of reasons that people of certain body types, medical conditions or job/dress requirements can cite to justify them carrying really small guns, but full grown men of sound mind and body don't have an excuse for not carrying a fighting sized gun and two reloads in my opinion.

Granted, this comes from a guy who carries a J Frame .38 90 percent of the time hehe. I always have it, but then again I always feel undergunned. I can't wait until I get something that combines capacity with rust resistance so I don't have to worry about my P228 rotting or my Model 60 running out of ammo.

Average gun fight is over in about 2 to 3 rounds. Carrying a gun as a citizen your only real advantage over anyone who tries to attack you is because they don't know you have a gun and that is the only real advantage and the only real reason that armed citizens win gun fights is because of the element of surprise. The reason why I don't carry a full size heavy high capacity gun is I see it as unnecessary and Id probably end up leaving it at home or locked in the glove box half the time whereas a smaller handgun I have no excuse to not be armed as I barely notice that I'm carrying it. Only real reason to carry that is if you are expecting a gun fight somethings gone wrong in your life and you need to move or call the police. Oh and if 5 guys attack me with guns I don't think a Beretta 9mm is gonna save me and your probably good as dead to put it realistically because If that many people are after your and want you dead and they'll get you eventually. Yeah of course its better to have a full size handgun but realistically I'm not going to carry that everywhere. 8 rounds is enough to do the job and if its not I probably made some bad life choices somewhere.

Hell, no matter what I do I'll have a gut (runs in the family; my Navy Corpsman cousin has one even though he's the biggest gym rat I've ever met), but it never bothered me Mexican carrying my 459. I reckon it'd even be less of a problem with a smaller gun.


I think minor uncomfortable things don't really bother me as much as they do others, just because I am already pretty much physically incapable of being completely comfortable

Again you can't use the term "Average gun fight" or "statistics show". It means that yes the odds of your gun fight lasting X amount time, encounter Y amount of foes and expend Z amount of ammo shows good favor but you can't let that decide your options. It's like rolling a dice. You might land good or you might suck.

I wear pretty good jeans even during the summer when the heat bothers most people and a good belt that holds my Glock and my spare constantly and it doesn't bother me. There's also the saying that a gun show be comforting, not comfortable, but there's a happy medium with that logic.

Some would call my Glock 19 a full size gun but with my body type, I see it as skirting the edge of a full size and compact. It's a pretty perfect size for me. Some want a bit smaller, so they'd get the Glock 26, sure and it's still a capable gun.

And no, it isn't that you carry a gun because you "expect a fight". It's "you're prepared for a fight".

Also the "call the cops" mentality is the opposite of carry mentality. Most anti gun people would go "why carry a gun at all when you can call the cops?" Well we know why. Cops take too long to help you and are not around every corner. We carry guns to protect ourselves, to put or lives in our hands, not let it hang while cops come to save us or most likely to report about us being victims.

Forget about the right gun or ammo or even training, you first need the mindset of a fighter. The warrior mindset. You go about your day doing whatever but when SHTF, you are ready for it. It most likely will be when you least expect it and will surprise you, but your mindset will kick in and you will fight for your life regardless.

I'll give you 1 maybe 2 guys coming after you in a mugging maybe, but realistically if your being ganged up by posses armed to the teeth its because your into some shady sh*t ie criminal...just saying.

If you want to count on those statistics and beliefs then we won't stop you, and I respect your right to think and carry how you choose to do so, and I can't fault you for making the decision to carry that way if you do it consistently and it works for you. However, I still think that a limiting notion like the one you have adopted is philosophically against the mentality of carry and preparedness in general, though, and that is why I personally opt for bigger guns and more ammo if I can get it without compromising concealment. I want to be prepared for worst case scenarios up to and including multiple assailants, like with a gang attack, or assailants with bigger guns than mine, like mass shooters. I also want to account for gun and magazine malfunctions, misses and the need for multiple hits if it comes down to it, which is not something that a subcompact or micro gun with one lone magazine will cover. I reiterate, I think it's great that you and probably millions of others have found those guns and have found a way to carry them consistently, but I still think that carry is philosophically about preparedness and that one should maximize their preparedness with their choice of gun and loadout, not minimize it based on arbitrary statistics or assumptions of the threats they may face. All due respect, we are carry brothers and I support that you carry 100 percent, but I implore you to reconsider your mentality and philosophy of your carry method for your own sake. Do with that what you will and whatever you do, keep carrying and stay safe.

I will always keep advocating different techniques and an open mind.

That being said, keep up a warrior mindset, practice practice practices and whenever you can, pay for top quality training.

At the risk of sounding pedantic or PC, I do want to say that the term "warrior mindset" implies a lot of things that don't fall in line with the traditional concealed carrier or the overall philosophy of a concealed carrier/gun owner in a civilized society. "Warrior" implies one who wages war in offensive capacities, and this is not really the case with a CCer. Not to mention it sounds very blowhard, macho and a bit pretentious considering the civil society in which we live. I believe in being conscious of your surroundings and proactive in your movements and the like, as well as using the appropriate amount of force in violent encounters where it is necessary, but I and other CCers are not "warriors" just because we carry guns to protect ourselves and/or the people around us. I'm sure there's a better term for what you call the "warrior mindset" that doesn't have the overtly brash masculine and offensive tinge to it, though I can't put it into words myself at this very moment. I appreciate the thought you are referring to, but I think the term you use to refer to said thought is a poor choice of words for the mentality and its ultimate intentions as it applies to civilian CCers.

Well the mindset applies to not just males but females. It's not about being macho. It's about being able to fight. You can't just own a weapon and that alone comforts you. You need to be able to use it when the time comes. I could also call it the fighter mindset. I simply meant that once you have a gun and get training on how to use it, you need to keep in mind the power behind it and the responsibility of having one.

I would be uncomfortably carrying less than 15 rounds, minimum, myself. When I carry, it'll be an automatic, so I reckon I'll carry a spare magazine unless I have absolutely no choice.

Thinking about it, I might have to go with a small-ish .380 or something at first, since chances are good I'll be getting an internship in the fall that requires I not only travel through some shitty parts of Houston, but also wear slacks and a tie every day

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8527/...075c3730_z.jpgS&W 3913 TSW decocked by Eric with-held, on Flickr

My carry gun

If you want anything smaller than 9mm, your choice of ammo for defense has to be more specific. I know many that would go with specific ball ammo for .380 because it doesn't have the power of larger caliber. There's plenty of 9mm guns that are small ish that you can go with.