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-   -   Help Please w/ Gun Identification (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2101)

Blimp53 12-10-2012 04:51 AM

Help Please w/ Gun Identification
 
Hi, I'm brand new here though I've been a long time visitor and I give you all huge props for this amazing wiki.

Not sure if this is standard protocol or not but I was hoping to contribute to the wiki a little and will be glad to do so but wanted to make sure I was giving out accurate information.

To briefly describe myself, I restore vintage cars, mostly Volkswagens, and have worked on or totally restored about 6 actual, screen-used Herbie the Love Bug VWs from the Disney films. That leads us to my question...

In the 1976 film "Herbie Goes to Monte Carlo" there are a couple different guns seen. I'd like to know what they are for my own curiosity, but I figured they might as well go on the site as well.

Looks like I'm only allowed to post 4 images so here are two of each gun plus links to others.

The first is this. I assume it's a Walther PPK but I don't know if it's a different brand's copy or not. Please advise.
http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun2.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun4.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...tecarlogun.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun1.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun3.jpg



Here's the second. I thought maybe it's a Colt Detective but I'm really not sure (the character just so happens to be a detective, by the way).
http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun6.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun7.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun5.jpg

Not a great shot, but the only real glimpse of the grips (gun is in mid-air).
http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun8.jpg

Thanks much!

Dan

Seriously Mike 12-10-2012 02:17 PM

I think that the PPK is the genuine article (and surely not an Astra Constable, the Constable has a different trigger guard, thicker in front). As for the revolver, I'm not sure. The one held by the Hercule Poirot knockoff is clearly a non-gun or blank-firer, while the one held by the mechanic is most probably a S&W M36 (the visible two cylinder chambers look like they're at an angle, so it might be a five-round cylinder).

Blimp53 12-10-2012 03:32 PM

Thanks for the input. To be clear, the revolver is the same "gun" in the movie, it gets knocked out of the bad guy's hand and into Don Knotts'. But I agree with your assessment that they're different props, which is weird. The gun is never fired in the film. It almost looks like live rounds in the chamber when Don Knotts is holding it, but I'm no expert. It's at least supposed to look like live rounds, I guess.

Looking at it closer in this pic and comparing the 36 to the Detective Special, I'm not so sure it's either at this point.
http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun8.jpg

If you look closely, there appears to be a small arch in the frame between the hammer and the grip. Can you make it out?

Thanks again,
Dan

Blimp53 12-10-2012 03:34 PM

The film takes place and was partially filmed in Europe (especially France). Probably irrelevant, but maybe it's a foreign revolver of some kind?

Dan

Seriously Mike 12-11-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blimp53 (Post 37073)
The film takes place and was partially filmed in Europe (especially France). Probably irrelevant, but maybe it's a foreign revolver of some kind?

No, you actually may be on to something. Post-WW2, Walther PPK was produced in France, which may explain the markings on the front of the slide (they don't look like the standard importer's marks on American models).

As for the revolver, the shot of it being knocked into the air is useless because of two reasons. First, it's safer to throw a non-firing prop in the air than even an unloaded weapon. A prop may be lighter, so if it hits something it's not supposed to, it's less likely to break anything. Second, the gun is blurry anyway. Take one, Hercule Budget is shown holding the unloaded, non-firing prop, Herbie's trunk pops open knocking the prop out of his hand, cut to: Don Knotts holding a very much loaded revolver.

Blimp53 12-11-2012 05:59 PM

Good point, that should have been obvious. Okay, that explains the non-gun, then.

I carefully scrutinized all the different Colts and S&Ws (granted there are other brands, but it seems likely it's one of the two) and concluded that it's either a S&W Model 36, like you suggested, or a Model 12, which I feel may be more likely. They're basically identical in appearance except that the bolt meets the end of the barrel on the 36 and not the 12, and it seems not to on the gun in question. I also don't know if I think it's a 5-shot compared to this picture, which is a 36. Maybe you disagree, but I think it looks more like a 6-shooter. Finally, I noticed on the page for the Model 12 that it says they were issued to the French Police, which, again, the character with the gun is a French Inspector. I kind of doubt that Disney spent that much time on the details, but what do you think?

5-shot Model 36, the same as below?
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/3/...Revolver-7.jpg
http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun7.jpg

Dan

Seriously Mike 12-12-2012 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blimp53 (Post 37085)

Yeah, that'd be it, identical angles on both pictures. A 36 it is.

Blimp53 12-12-2012 02:48 PM

Okay, sounds good.

I might as well be thorough. I just remembered there are a couple shotguns at the beginning of the movie. Can you help?

I never noticed that the one actor changes. Ha! The older guy's gun changes to match what the younger guy has as well.

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...ecarlogun9.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...carlogun10.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...carlogun11.jpg

http://redbarnrestorations.com/herbi...carlogun12.jpg

Dan

funkychinaman 12-13-2012 04:16 AM

In the first shot, the first guard has a Winchester Model 1897 trench gun. The guard in the back appears to have a High Standard Flite King. Then it's Flite Kings in all the other shots.

Blimp53 12-13-2012 02:32 PM

Beautiful, thanks!

I'll work on making the entry soon.

Dan


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