Best handgun round?
 

I've been doing more and more research on handgun calibers as far as use on self defense/police use and I've decided after looking over the most common handgun rounds that 9x19mm is the perfect handgun caliber for that use. 9mm you can hold more rounds in a pistol, less recoil therefore easier to keep on target and faster followup shots especially in a stressful situation, more velocity and range (not as important in handguns but in submachineguns/carbines) and cheaper to buy and therefore more economical for practice. The arguments for .45 ACP and .40 S&W in my opinion are nullified being that stopping power in handguns has largely been proven a myth. .40 S&W has excessive snap/recoil compared to 9mm holds less rounds and has a drastically reduced service life in comparison to 9mm handguns of the same type. The only reason I can find to use a .45 ACP over 9mm is if your running a suppressor as .45 ACP is subsonic. .45 ACP handguns also tend to have a drastically reduced capacity compared to 9mm. Only merits to use .40 S&W is they can be slightly more reliable shooting through a car windshield.

Can anyone argue a reason to use a caliber other than 9mm for a handgun in self defense/police usage...

I have no argument for other calibers than 9mm as a carry round for a handgun, other rounds like the .45 can be pretty awesome in an SMG.

The 9mm has been improved a lot since the 90s when the .40 was introduced

You can have the caliber debate all day but 9mm will always have the most benefits and the least detriments for most handgun uses. As AdAstra mentioned, it is the most cost effective of the big three (9mm, .45 ACP and the soon to be defunct .40S&W), it is relatively low recoiling, and it will always offer a higher capacity than other calibers in similar guns.

There are some other considerations in favor of 9mm as well, though. 9mm guns tend to have better longevity as well considering that a lot of .40 guns were scaled up from 9mm guns to accept the cartridge. There are also subsonic 147 grain 9mm loads that are cheaper than standard .45 ball which mostly negate favoring of .45 for the purpose of suppression (though .45 ACP will be more powerful, but that doesn't outweigh every other 9mm benefit). The amount of micro guns in 9mm also allow the cartridge to bleed into .380 territory and a niche that .40 and .45 can't really touch due to their pressure/size constraints.

The whole stoppin' powah discussion is moot as well, and the small variance in ballistic numbers are mostly just puff. First off, you shouldn't count on your gun to "stop" someone in a less lethal capacity, as bullets are still very very lethal if they hit the right places. The general consensus in a defensive situation where lethal force is being used upon you is to shoot to kill, but not to execute someone if they are incapacitated, which makes perfect legal and ethical sense. Still, you should never go for or count on an incapacitating hit because bullets generally don't work that way. There is a very high likelihood that an individual will not be totally incapacitated by a gunshot, so your best bet is to understand that you may very well kill someone with your bullets and act with that consideration in mind.

As an extension of that, gunshots themselves are typically only definitely lethal if they hit a vital organ (the brain or the heart for example). Otherwise, they are survivable, and according to statistics, 80 percent of gunshot victims survive regardless of the caliber with which they are shot, because the wounds are in nonfatal places. Think about every mass shooting and notice how the amount of dead people is small compared to the amount of wounded, and this stat becomes easy to understand and accept. What kills people is getting to those vital organs, and some will argue that the mass and velocity of .45 and .40 allow for that penetration easily, but so do a lot of modern 9mm loads, according to independent tests conducted with the FBI 12" penetration protocols. Again, in summation, the stopping power point is moot.

.45 ACP will never go anywhere because of the 1911 and because its weight range allows for good penetration and velocity variances for niche practices, especially hunting and competition. .40 S&W was a poor solution to an overstated problem that created a lot of other problems that are just now coming to fruition after 20 some odd years of its use. 9mm Luger, with current bullet designs (and, I would personally argue, before current bullet designs) does just about everything well enough if not exceptionally well. I find it very hard to see reason to dispute this.

I think at this point, with the near limitless varieties of guns and ammunition around for each common caliber, the round itself matters less than what you're doing and what works best for you. For me, I think I'd use 9mm, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, etc for different stuff usually; that being said I can't really think of any reason to use .40 for anything (I mean, I'll still probably end up with one just to have the option, but whether or not it'd be my choice for anything in particular would be 100% dependent on the gun rather than the caliber)

I myself would be way more likely to pick .45 ACP over anything else just for general use/whatever simply because I'm very used to it. However, I feel that .357 Magnum would be more flexible and all-around applicable, but it'd not be my first choice because even though I shoot revolvers pretty well, I highly doubt I'd be able to reload it under stress fast enough for it to be much use past the 6-7 shots I'd get from the first cylinder full

Well now you dicks have me researching the different rounds, thanks a lot. It'd be nice to get an auto in a semi-common round that performs similarly to .357 Magnum, without the gun being absolute ass or the round being expensive/rare

^Think the closest your going to get is .357 SIG as its relatively common, fairly priced, and I guess the great thing about it is you finally have a use for a .40 caliber pistol-swapping out the barrel and making it a .357 SIG pistol.

Yeah I started this thread as I came to the sudden realization that there's no reason for me to buy any handgun chambered in something other than 9mm except for novelty purposes. I was hoping I would be convinced otherwise.....oh well

Now my S&W 4506 and box of 500 rounds are nothing but a novelty :confused:

Though im still getting a 10mm for hiking/camping.

***1,000 post!!!***

Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuiePszwaho

I'm very much a 9mm guy myself, though my reasons have more to do with practical considerations (cost, mag capacity, and recoil) based on how I use my guns: range time only. Unlike seemingly everyone else, I don't place a lot of emphasis on self-defense.

I can't imagine I'll ever buy anything in .40 S&W, and while I respect .45, I don't think any .45 I own will ever be a go-to pistol for me.

.500 S&W, obviously. :P

Yeah if I got a .40 that was able to do that swap, I'd get it just because. But if I get a .40 I reckon it'll be a S&W 3rd gen (if you find a 3rd gen here, 4/5 of the time it's a .40 because they were quite popular with the police), so I don't think that'll happen. Coonan time?

I want at least one pistol in each major caliber, but I like having options and variety

.50 AE is more practical...

The reality is that you need to find a caliber you can train regularly enough with to become proficient with. Bigger calibers generally have more recoil (and effective range, but that's given the data on the close-range nature of defensive shootings that's not likely to be very useful) and if you can't train enough with them they're not much use to you. This is likely the reason why the FBI went back to 9x19mm despite experimenting first with 10mm and then .40 S&W.

Have you tried using moon clips for revolvers? They have the potential to be even faster than speedloaders, and also make retaining spent brass cases very easy.

I've heard that fully-loaded 10mm out of purpose-built 10mm handguns has less felt recoil than fully-loaded .40 S&W, despite the fact that .40 S&W was a downloaded version of the 10mm. Is it because 10mm handguns are built larger and heavier than .40 S&W ones, since the latter were intended to be very similar in size to 9x19mm handguns?

6-8 little poles into 6-8 little holes on the wrong side of the gun, don't think it'll fly

This'n here

.40 exists because someone took a look at the 10mm load the FBI was using and figured out they could get the same performance out of a shorter round, allowing for a smaller gun with a higher capacity. Honestly the 1006/1076/whatever they issued was kind of wasted on the piddly pop 10mm load they were using

I'll give you $5 and half a Coke for it

Oh lord the Caliber War has arrived here at imfdb. Albeit in a very civilized way. Here's what I go with.

I carry the Federal 124 grain +P HST jacketed hollow point in my Glock 19. My backup is a Smith & Wesson Model 49 Bodyguard. I carry 125 grain +P jacketed hollow points in it. I like the 45 acp and the 357 magnum, but for everyday I go with the 9mm and 38 Special. Bullet engineering has come a long ways since the FBI-Miami Shooting in 1986. I like the 9mm. I shoot it well. Also I don't have big hands and I find the Glock 19 Gen 4 to be comfortable and easy to handle. The 9mm doesn't beat up a pistol like more high powered loads do (40 S&W) and it's more affordable.

I am one of a handful of officers that carry the Glock 19. The majority carry the Glock 21 (45acp). Most of our detectives carry the Glock 30, but a few carry the Glock 19.

In the past fifteen years (since I've been with my agency) we've had three officer involved shootings. One suspect was put down with a single 45 to his heart. Another one took several 5.56 mm rounds - fired by SWAT when he pointed a gun at them. The last one was shot by an off duty officer who was carrying a S&W Model 640 in 38 Special. He hit the suspect in the shin. The hollow point performed perfectly and shattered the suspect's shin bone.:eek: The suspect promptly fell to the ground, dropped his gun (a POS Raven 25 caliber pistol) screamed in agony and gave up. He is still in prison and the officer is still working with us.

In all three cases the bullets did what they were supposed to do regardless of the caliber. They ended the threat. The loss of life is secondary (not desired) in law enforcement . Despite what all the screeching and the "protesters" would have you believe over the past year we don't want to kill people. No I haven't been in a shooting and I hope I never am involved in a shooting. I have nine more years to go before I can retire. No shootings. Please.

What do you mean? Of course moon clips for revolvers have to be inserted into the rear of the cylinder, just like speedloaders.

In this respect the 10mm was ahead of its time, as the technology and techniques to make handguns strong enough to handle it over a long lifetime of use weren't available then. Perhaps the FBI could have tried the Glock 20 instead of switching back to 9mm (their SWAT teams are still using the 10mm version of the MP5). .40 S&W guns have had a reputation for self-destructing, but that hasn't been heard of in purpose-built 10mm guns (at least not as often). The Glock 20 can be converted to fire .40 S&W (for cheaper training ammo) and .357 SIG with nothing more than a barrel change as well.

But in any case, what exactly is AdAstra2009 willing to try? There's lots to try out there, and given the "ammo panics" prices of widely-used calibers aren't guaranteed to stay affordable.

Yes. that's it. The 40 caliber pistols mostly start out as 9mm models which is part of the problem. It is my understanding that the S&W 3rd Generation 40 (4000 models) caliber pistols were built around the 40 S&W which is why they had a better track record. However I have never owned one of the 40 caliber S&W autos so I'm going off what I've read on the S&W forums.

I am left handed

The cylinder on all but the Charter Arms Southpaw open out the left side of the gun, meaning I am meant to reload using the hand with which I am currently gripping the revolver

The cylinder release is on the left side of the gun, the opposite side of where my thumb would be situated

As someone who is left handed, this configuration is functionally useless to me unless I have 20 seconds or so to reload

Well, that just gives more reason for those using purpose-built .40 S&Ws to go and try 10mm handguns. Conversion barrels to .40 S&W are usually available for those.

Kind of makes you wish the MP-412 REX hadn't been cancelled, doesn't it? Top-break revolvers like the REX are ambidextrous, after all. Have you tried moving the revolver over to your right hand so you can push the cylinder release, then putting the revolver back in your left hand after you've finished reloading?

I always heard good things about the S&W 1006. Built like a boat anchor. Not meant to be a CCW pistol, but very solid. I own a second generation S&W Model 745 and that's one solid pistol. Again pretty massive, but I didn't buy it to carry on my ankle.

OMG I want a S&W 1006/1076, looks just like the 4506 but in the bear killing 10mm, not the obsolete .45 ACP!!!

You could probably carry a Glock 29 on your ankle. But that would be pretty hard to handle in a live-fire situation without lots of practice.

S&W is largely out of the business of making handguns in that caliber. You might want to try the newer SIG P220 in 10mm instead.

The SIG P220 in 10mm for $1400, no thank you. The S&W 10mms are usually in the 7-900 dollar range and the Glock 20/29 isn't meant to fire the full power 10mms unless you fork out the money for an aftermarket barrel with a fully supported chamber. the S&W 1006/1076/1066 are one of the few 10mm pistols from what I understand can run full power loads in their factory configuration.

Actually all you need for the 10mm Glock to shoot better is a stronger guide rod and that's it. A buddy of mine has one as his carry gun

A Glock's price point that ain't. You could go get a Rock Island Armoury in M1911 in 10mm instead.

The 10mm Glocks can fire full-power 10mm loads with their stock barrels, it's just that the brass ejected will be bulged, which means it can't be reused for handloading (though of course it can still be melted back down to be recycled). The unsupported part of the chamber in stock Glock barrels is to increase feeding reliability, but this obviously has its drawbacks with regards to higher-pressure cartridges. Given the ubiquity of Glocks, however, finding conversion barrels at reasonable prices shouldn't be too difficult. The S&W 1006 series is also made on single-stack frames, and that means you get stock with single-stack magazine capacities which you can't increase by much afterwards.

.45 Super, man. If I had a spare 4506, I'd look into it

I don't really have a need for 10mm; reckon having a .45 that'll eat +P+ indefinitely will do whatever I'd need a 10mm for

Is that something that I'd need to have the gunsmith do? Also I have the 4506-0

The two rounds are externally exactly the same size, I imagine the only difference that you would need would be a stiffer recoil spring. There are also a few other parts that I imagine it would be a good idea to upgrade, but I think the recoil spring would be the only thing that you would really have to change. Thinking about it, I imagine that a spring meant for a 1006 would probably do.

I've done a little bit of reading and a lot of people recommend some kind of upgrade kit specifically talking about a recoil buffer or something like that, something along the lines of it being needed or .45 super will wear the gun out faster -and being that the 4506 is no longer supported by S&W that would suck

Is it still on the LAPD approved list? If so, you'd think there's be SOME support.

LAPD still authorizes it along with the 5906 which is also discontinued(which is also a NYPD issued firearm and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police standard issue firearm as well (5946)) Real shame really because the 3rd generation Smith & Wesson steel framed DA/SA handguns are probably my favorite handgun series hands down. I actually shoot my 3913 better then my issued M&P....probably because my M&P is in .40 caliber also barf

I think S&W will still make new parts and whole guns, if the order is large enough