imfdb.org

imfdb.org (http://forum.imfdb.org/index.php)
-   Just Guns (http://forum.imfdb.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Gun purchases thread. (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1842)

S&Wshooter 06-08-2016 06:11 AM

I think you did the opposite of what you wanted there, made a pretty good case against carrying what is arguably (regardless of what SIG calls it) full sized handgun in your pocket. Go full autism and get a hawaiian shirt and a shoulder holster

People really don't pay attention, though, but the ONE person that does is going to fuck up everything for you

Excalibur 06-08-2016 03:40 PM

Ok, my Glock 19 is just shy of being full size and I don't even carry it IWB. I carry it OWB with a decent size shirt covering it. The idea of IWB a smaller gun, a P228 is NOT a small gun no matter what you call it. If guys at my local PD carry P229s as well as the Secret Service...it isn't really a compact gun, much less a gun for pocket carry...unless you meant the pockets of a cargo pants.

I carry 1 spare mag on me for the G19 and it's the full size G17 mag with a +2 extension. To me, that's just enough spare rounds in a first response situation. If I am near my car, I got 2 more spare full size G17s mags in the glove box and a "get home" bag full of other goodies and I plan on carrying some kind of "get home carbine" in there. Deciding on the Kel-tec Sub2000 or something else. Only for trips where I am out of the house all day, not if I'm going grocery shopping around the corner.


I carry my G19 in a Safariland GLS holster and it fits pretty snug OWB, but I wanted the nice smaller, SMALLER gun of the G43 and I can finally IWB carry it and just slap on a plain T-shirt for summer wear. It barely shows up in the tightest shirt I got. I have only like 2 shirts that can really hide my G19 when I carry it. They are button short sleeve 5.11 style shirts. I feel like I'm doing PMC work every time I put them on or go "adventuring" in some 3rd world country (on top of the fact that I wear cargo pants a lot). In fact, the brand name of my button shirts even advertise "for the adventurer in you". On the other hand, I got tons of t-shirts and other casual shirts that don't stand out.

And as to comparing the shooting of the single stack micro carry pistol to a much larger double stack SIG...seriously? A single stack SIG P series is still too big for conceal carry (SIG is trying to advertise the rebirth of the P225 as a conceal carry gun). My G43 shoots and handles bigger than it is. In contrast, if I put my "carry mag", which is fitted with a +2 Taran Tactical baseplate, the feel of the gun is like a G26 sliced perfectly in half and about the same height. If I put the +3, which is my spare, into the gun, it feels almost like a G19 sliced in half and I can still hide it IWB. So yeah, it's a small gun, but not TOO small and shoots like it's a big gun at close quarters range without any severe recoil that makes your shots go off target if you rapid fire. Which I did. I unloaded 9 rounds in rapid fire at a target 10 feet away and all within reasonable placement center mass hits with no "wild" shot that I accidentally threw somewhere because of how fast I was shooting. I've done that before with other small guns with smaller calibers like the bodyguard .380. It's double action trigger was a bit hard on my finer and don't get me started on the Kel-tec TCP.

Yournamehere 06-08-2016 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter (Post 42671)
I think you did the opposite of what you wanted there, made a pretty good case against carrying what is arguably (regardless of what SIG calls it) full sized handgun in your pocket. Go full autism and get a hawaiian shirt and a shoulder holster

People really don't pay attention, though, but the ONE person that does is going to fuck up everything for you

It's not full sized because the P226 is full sized and the P228 is slightly smaller than the P226. It's in the compact classification. Regardless of whether or not it is objectively smaller than whatever gun one wants to cherry pick, it is a "compact" that is smaller than it's "full sized" counterpart, and comparable in size to other "compact" guns on the market. Additionally, my goal in detailing the effort I went through with my current setup is just to detail that I've stretched the limits of concealibility to carry a larger gun with the same effectiveness and consistency as I would with a smaller one. Moreover, I'm well over worrying about someone making me since the gun itself is concealed well enough, and someone making the jump from "nylon pouch" to "mag pouch" to "he has a gun" to "he has a gun and is dangerous" to calling the cops and my arrest is wildly farfetched. There are so many ways to de-escalate that at every step of the scenario that it's a non-issue in my eyes. Short of actually brandishing or using the gun where it's totally visible, I'm not worried in the least about getting in trouble with it. The cops around here are pretty cool anyway too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 42672)
The idea of IWB a smaller gun, a P228 is NOT a small gun no matter what you call it. If guys at my local PD carry P229s as well as the Secret Service...it isn't really a compact gun, much less a gun for pocket carry...unless you meant the pockets of a cargo pants.

I think you mean that "The idea of IWB carry is built around smaller sized guns" so I will respond with that in mind.

"Compact" is a mainstream classification under which the P228 falls, nevermind what specifications we actually attribute to the classification. It's just the terminology used to describe the gun's size in a general sense relative to standard "full size" service guns. Also, I never said it was small, just small enough for my purposes, which is perfect. And I do carry the gun in the front right pocket of my 5.11 Taclite Pros, not a cargo pocket, with ease.

Just as well, I've IWB'd my P228 quite a bit with just a T shirt, and it's not ideal for comfort or concealment, but it works well enough from a functional standpoint, given the limitations of my current gear and clothing. The only reason I don't IWB the gun now is because I can't for the life of me find a holster with the proper combo of belt mounting, ride height, cant and sweat protection that I like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 42672)
A single stack SIG P series is still too big for conceal carry.

Except it's not, because I carry a double stack just as consistently as I do a micro gun. It takes marginally more effort, but it's far from impossible. I'm just trying to highlight how I've personally inverted the paradigm of CCers making compromises in what they carry, and therefore, their capabilities with their gun, for super highly concealability. I've gone with the minimum amount of concealability for a larger gun, and therefore, a higher degree of shooting performance. You can carry pretty much anything if you gear up and dress accordingly. The only question is whether or not you are willing or able to make the concessions to do so. I think it's interesting, to say the least, that it has become so normal for people to carry smaller guns because of market saturation, aggressive marketing, and the acceptance of carry limitations that are more perceived than real. Just something worth thinking about, I feel.

Excalibur 06-08-2016 05:46 PM

Alright, fine, it's all about body size and your right, a good holster. Might I recommend Raven, or Bravo Concealment. For cheap, there's a newish company I got mine at "On Your 6 Design". For kinda more expensive HTC makes some pretty good holsters where you CAN fully IWB a full size gun.

I think for those fully committed, it's about how much you are willing to spend and what you are willing to wear. For IWB of a double stack gun, you might have to get a pants size 1 bigger to fit the gun inside your pants.

For concealment, it's about how the holster gun functions while being hidden. If it isn't hidden well, it's not really concealment. That's kind of the point of hiding your gun.

Realistically, 99% of people don't actually look at a bulge in the shirt and think gun. I've seen holsters for phones now that have shirts over it and yeah, they are pretty big underneath a shirt. The one time I know the guy has a gun and not a phone was because he's actually using his phone and he wasn't even trying to hide his Glock 17 underneath a t-shirt. He was still pretty new to carrying guns.

Yournamehere 06-08-2016 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 42675)
Alright, fine, it's all about body size and your right, a good holster. Might I recommend Raven, or Bravo Concealment. For cheap, there's a newish company I got mine at "On Your 6 Design". For kinda more expensive HTC makes some pretty good holsters where you CAN fully IWB a full size gun.

I think for those fully committed, it's about how much you are willing to spend and what you are willing to wear. For IWB of a double stack gun, you might have to get a pants size 1 bigger to fit the gun inside your pants.

For concealment, it's about how the holster gun functions while being hidden. If it isn't hidden well, it's not really concealment. That's kind of the point of hiding your gun.

I've tried a Raven Phantom with IWB loops and don't like it overall, but I do use them for OWB holsters. I actually got a Phantom XC1 holster for my P229R and it's literally perfect in every way for OWB. They redesigned the sweat guard so it covers the slide and controls in their entirety, though I don't know if they've done this with their standard Phantoms. If they have, I might buy a new one for my P228.

I've been considering the HTC holsters for a while because they make a dedicated IWB for an XC1 equipped gun, their sweat guard is excellent from what I can see in their pictures, and they have a belt loop option instead of a plastic clip.

My current IWB is an RDR Holster which is phenomenal for the 35 bucks I paid for it, and it works just fine, but it has a plastic clip and a meh sweat guard, and I've been looking for something better to replace it.

Oh yeah, P229R with XC1:

http://i.imgur.com/JRi2wZF.jpg

Excalibur 06-08-2016 06:16 PM

Me personally, I've never been a fan of DA/SA guns. For beginners, I've always advocate a gun with 1 type of trigger pull, not 2. Be with DAO, SA or Striker fire.

StanTheMan 06-09-2016 09:15 PM

I've always personally liked calling ones like the SIG P228/P229 'intermediate' pistols as 'compact' just seems a bit misleading and exhaustive for me (anything not as big as a full-size is a compact? Bah, tell that to car companies). That said, I'm personally not into Glocks, not because I think they are bad (on the contrary) but because every one I've tried, NONE have felt good in my hand, just can't get confident with drawing and wielding them. Of course I have stubby fingers so any hi-cap is going to be a problem. As Excalibur said, physical attributes come into play for sure.

Some of the single-stack Glocks caught my eye but I still don't prefer that aesthetic or striker fire. I actually like the rebooted P225, but I do agree the overall size might be a tad large still, even if it is a bit flatter. I agree generally that an IWB and/or pocket gun is likely going to have to be something more on the smaller side. Not everyone can hide a larger gun so well, no matter how much they try.

I do think you make a fair point about not limiting yourself YNH and personally like your choice (beautiful SIGs by the way) but I think Excalibur said it mostly. It's all about what concessions you want to make where. And of course, mindset, your evaluation of things. Me, I'm not looking to be any hero, so I'm not looking for a larger piece with 15 rounds at the ready. I'm the guy that would happily carry a snub at this point. As I go forward that might change, but not the mindset I have right now nor going into the near future.

Excalibur 06-09-2016 09:28 PM

Carrying a gun for me and a lot of people is never about "being a hero" or being a cowboy. It's plain and simple. I carry because it is my right. To be able to defend myself. It doesn't matter what I carry because I have a right to choose.

I don't wake up in the morning, put my gun on and pray for a gun fight. It's just part of my everyday attire and has become second nature. Sometimes I forget I am even carrying a gun, but whenever I feel in danger, I know it is there ready to go.

StanTheMan 06-09-2016 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 42689)
Carrying a gun for me and a lot of people is never about "being a hero" or being a cowboy. It's plain and simple. I carry because it is my right. To be able to defend myself. It doesn't matter what I carry because I have a right to choose.

I don't wake up in the morning, put my gun on and pray for a gun fight. It's just part of my everyday attire and has become second nature. Sometimes I forget I am even carrying a gun, but whenever I feel in danger, I know it is there ready to go.

No, I got ya. I would think all of us on here are like that, because we're not mall ninjas and armchair warriors - Which I have to say I've been around too many of those in the past and still see that type from time to time. Can't stand that shit. Anyway, not meaning anything by that statement, just that I like keeping things simple, and that weighs in to most things, this included. Here, as you said, just looking to defend myself should the need arise. That's it.

StanTheMan 06-09-2016 09:52 PM

Back to business then.. I like your recommendations and tips. I've checked your holster suggestions for the IWB stuff and they mostly look good - Admittedly I lean a bit toward to OWB, though. I often wear two shirts (undershirt and a button down short sleeve - Dickies work shirt or similar) so I think concealment on an OWB isn't too hard, while IWB I might have trouble with effectively deploying when the need arises. That and again, I might go for a not-so-small carry piece. Been looking/thinking about it a bit more seriously in recent months.

While I admire Yournamehere's method, I don't think I'd be able to pull it off. And people carrying full-sizes IWB? I've seen it done, but.. Bah.


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.