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-   -   5.45 & 7.62 Soviet (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2229)

2wingo 07-31-2013 11:54 PM

5.45 & 7.62 Soviet
 
How widely available are these cartridges in the US? I mean, would the average gun or sporting goods store be likely to carry them?

commando552 08-01-2013 12:01 AM

For 7.62x39mm yes, for 5.45x39mm not so much. 7.62x39mm is much more popular, meaning that "47" rifles are much more common than "74" rifles.

funkychinaman 08-01-2013 12:19 AM

7.62x39mm is probably the cheapest centerfire rifle ammo available in the US.

2wingo 08-01-2013 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando552 (Post 39466)
For 7.62x39mm yes, for 5.45x39mm not so much. 7.62x39mm is much more popular, meaning that "47" rifles are much more common than "74" rifles.

Follow-up question: How do they compare ballistically to their NATO equivalents?

funkychinaman 08-01-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2wingo (Post 39468)
Follow-up question: How do they compare ballistically to their NATO equivalents?

You can get pages and pages on this via Google.

commando552 08-01-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2wingo (Post 39468)
Follow-up question: How do they compare ballistically to their NATO equivalents?

There is a lot about this online, and TBH it pretty much all disagrees with each other. It also depends on the situation it is being used in and personal preference. For example in a close range urban fight, I would probably go with the 7.62x39mm as it has better penetration through obstacles and will not be deflected as much. However the 5.56x45mm has better range and accuracy than the 7.62x39mm, so out to longer ranges past 300m or so I would go for the 5.56x45mm.

In terms of wounding power this is a bit of an iffy subject, as the 7.62x39mm fires a heavier bullet with more energy, however it is very stable meaning that a FMJ bullet will just punch straight through a human creating a relatively narrow wound channel. The 5.56x45mm has less energy, however it is much better at transfering it as the round is unstable so that it tumbles inside the body, creating a wider wound channel. This is only for FMJ military ammo though, if you are going for SP or HP bullets the 7.62x39mm will be better.

In terms of comparing the 5.56x45mm to 5.45x39mm, I would almost always go for the 5.56x45mm. Without even getting into the ballistic comparison, there is a far greater variety of 5.56 ammo available meaning that you can get something that better fits your needs. The 5.56 has better range and accuracy, fires a heavier bullet with more energy and has better penetration. The 5.45x39mm has lower recoil and has a flatter trajectory (along with possibly slightly better wounding potential but not sure about that one).

S&Wshooter 08-01-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2wingo (Post 39465)
How widely available are these cartridges in the US? I mean, would the average gun or sporting goods store be likely to carry them?

I had to sell an AK-74 I spent months trying to get because it was literally impossible to get any 5.45 for less per round than .44 Magnum, pre-panic prices. I can get 7.62x39 pretty much anywhere

predator20 08-01-2013 07:25 PM

With 5.45 there used to only be the choice of Russian surplus corrosive 7N6 which is the cheapest you're going to get or Silver Bear (which I'm not the biggest fan of). Now Golden Tiger makes it, which is great. http://www.sgammo.com/product/golden...w-production-a Same price as 7.62 from SGammo, but hey it's available.

The only major thing that sucks about the AK74, is finding good mags.

Chitoryu12 08-29-2013 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando552 (Post 39470)
There is a lot about this online, and TBH it pretty much all disagrees with each other. It also depends on the situation it is being used in and personal preference. For example in a close range urban fight, I would probably go with the 7.62x39mm as it has better penetration through obstacles and will not be deflected as much. However the 5.56x45mm has better range and accuracy than the 7.62x39mm, so out to longer ranges past 300m or so I would go for the 5.56x45mm.

In terms of wounding power this is a bit of an iffy subject, as the 7.62x39mm fires a heavier bullet with more energy, however it is very stable meaning that a FMJ bullet will just punch straight through a human creating a relatively narrow wound channel. The 5.56x45mm has less energy, however it is much better at transfering it as the round is unstable so that it tumbles inside the body, creating a wider wound channel. This is only for FMJ military ammo though, if you are going for SP or HP bullets the 7.62x39mm will be better.

In terms of comparing the 5.56x45mm to 5.45x39mm, I would almost always go for the 5.56x45mm. Without even getting into the ballistic comparison, there is a far greater variety of 5.56 ammo available meaning that you can get something that better fits your needs. The 5.56 has better range and accuracy, fires a heavier bullet with more energy and has better penetration. The 5.45x39mm has lower recoil and has a flatter trajectory (along with possibly slightly better wounding potential but not sure about that one).

Also, the actual ability of the bullet to tumble and fragment depends on the barrel length relative to the ammunition. Soldiers who complained about the lack of power of 5.56mm were usually using M4s (the US military is making a bigger and bigger switch to the more compact weapon), and 5.56mm rounds from a 14.5 inch barrel lose their ease of tumbling on impact at a shorter range from an 18 inch barrel.

They also tended to not double or triple-tap targets as they were trained to, which will always improve your killing potential. Unfortunately, many people have "learned" from film, TV, and video games that you generally just need to shoot the bad guy once and he'll instantly fall down and stop fighting. So they shoot the bad guy once, watch as he keeps shooting them, then blame what they shot him with.


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