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-   -   Shows/Films ruined by cruddy gunfights (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2505)

Lenny 04-04-2017 08:28 AM

Shows/Films ruined by cruddy gunfights
 
So the finale of this seasons' Walking Dead aired and- no big spoilers- there was another laughable gunfight with poor CGI'd muzzle flashes, very little evidence of recoil, no use of cover and a general sense of people pointing props at each other while going 'peow peow'. Whatever meagre sense of climactic action TWD stokes is regularly ruined by poor gunplay.

I'm not anally-retentive regarding 100% accurate depictions of bullet exchanges (I was raised on Peckinpah and John Woo), but it's grating when a show or movie doesn't put much effort in.

Any thoughts on TWD or examples of other shows/movies where climactic gun battles are let down by poor choreography/sound/general realism etc?

commando552 04-04-2017 09:59 AM

Another thing that bugged me about that fight was that the head of the junk yard people was holding that very obviously non-gun SIG for the whole standoff. Not only did it look really crappy, but it also meant that I knew she was going to shoot somebody point blank as that is the only reason to use a non-gun prop.

Also, did ANY named character actually die in that entire fight (ignoring the one that was already dead at the start)? It just seemed like a whole load of pointless shooting.

Lenny 04-04-2017 10:28 AM

Aye, automatic weapons 'firing' in all directions and no named characters get killed. Cracked me up that the first dead body you see was wearing a red(ish) shirt...!

Your first point brings me to another bug-bear- people holding pistols one handed, arm outstretched, for considerable amounts of time. I know it's possible to do so, but given the weight and strain on the arm, a bit foolish when - as in this case, she could have just aimed from the hip and saved herself a lot of arm ache...

Excalibur 04-04-2017 02:07 PM

I can kinda understand seeing that the vast majority of the characters wouldn't be gun people, so their stances and handling would be piss poor at best but this show is just stupid when it comes to the props.

funkychinaman 04-04-2017 07:49 PM

I wouldn't call it ruined, but I was disappointed by the gunplay in The Raid. I get it, it's a martial arts flick, but if you're going to go through the trouble of sending all the actors to training in weapons and tactics with a real special forces unit, why go all-Airsoft?

Lenny 04-04-2017 10:00 PM

Conversely I was going to mention The Raid as an example where cheapo After-Effects post-production gun effects worked really well (as opposed to TWD). Each to their own!

funkychinaman 04-04-2017 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny (Post 43496)
Conversely I was going to mention The Raid as an example where cheapo After-Effects post-production gun effects worked really well (as opposed to TWD). Each to their own!

Like I said, it didn't ruin the movie, it was very convincing. If you didn't watch the special features, I don't think the casual viewer would ever know. But if you're going to go all the way with the training, it's a shame not to go with real guns.

Lenny 04-05-2017 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkychinaman (Post 43497)
If you didn't watch the special features, I don't think the casual viewer would ever know.

Aye, had me fooled. I was so swept up in it I didn't know for a long time they were Airsoft. At a shoe string budget of, what, 2 million dollars, it can be excused I guess. But given that TWD has a budget of around that per episode, plus access to what looks like real firearms (or decommissioned/blank adapted ones anyway), you would have thought the sfx and general realism of the gunfights would be better (hell, I could do a better job storyboarding and using After Effects, gimme a job, AMC!).

Excalibur 04-05-2017 01:59 PM

I think with the Raid, perhaps the reason why there are no real guns could be both the fact that it was a low budget production and that the filming was in a country that has really strict gun control and probably because of their limited budget, they didn't get or couldn't get blank guns. I was a bit surprised that the cop characters had rifles with silencers but no optics. Then again, in the behind the scenes training, neither did the rifles they worked with

S&Wshooter 04-08-2017 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkychinaman (Post 43495)
I wouldn't call it ruined, but I was disappointed by the gunplay in The Raid. I get it, it's a martial arts flick, but if you're going to go through the trouble of sending all the actors to training in weapons and tactics with a real special forces unit, why go all-Airsoft?

They probably couldn't get blank guns, or a permit to use them

funkychinaman 04-09-2017 04:42 PM

Regarding the OP's initial post, since it was the season finale, they could've simply run out of money. Maybe a prior episode had gone over budget.

Lenny 04-10-2017 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkychinaman (Post 43507)
Regarding the OP's initial post, since it was the season finale, they could've simply run out of money. Maybe a prior episode had gone over budget.

Sadly, I don't think this is the case: I think it's just shoddy directing, which goes part and parcel with The Walking Dead. Rewatching the scene again, it's not quite as awful as I thought at the time and there appears to be some blank-adapted guns and/or okay-ish post-production work- but the general realism is akin to an episode of The A-Team. If B.A. had appeared riding the tiger, I wouldn't have been surprised.

Anyway, judge for yourself: there are worse gunfights out there for sure, but given this was built up throughout a really boring season, the payoff was disappointingly silly. 'Action' begins around 1:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lq-9Jb1FNU

funkychinaman 04-10-2017 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny (Post 43508)
Sadly, I don't think this is the case: I think it's just shoddy directing, which goes part and parcel with The Walking Dead. Rewatching the scene again, it's not quite as awful as I thought at the time and there appears to be some blank-adapted guns and/or okay-ish post-production work- but the general realism is akin to an episode of The A-Team. If B.A. had appeared riding the tiger, I wouldn't have been surprised.

Anyway, judge for yourself: there are worse gunfights out there for sure, but given this was built up throughout a really boring season, the payoff was disappointingly silly. 'Action' begins around 1:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lq-9Jb1FNU

I don't watch the show, but is Negan supposed to be a huge Escape from New York fan or was his MAC-10 just a coincidence?

Lenny 04-11-2017 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkychinaman (Post 43512)
I don't watch the show, but is Negan supposed to be a huge Escape from New York fan or was his MAC-10 just a coincidence?

I think it was a nice little homage. Better than him wearing Snake's vest I guess...

Ugh.

Excalibur 04-11-2017 01:49 PM

It's funny as hell that all the people are making fun of the MAC 10 scope and this tells us that they have never seen Escape from New York

Jcordell 04-30-2017 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 43515)
It's funny as hell that all the people are making fun of the MAC 10 scope and this tells us that they have never seen Escape from New York

Escape from New York gets a pass. :cool:

Spartan198 05-01-2017 12:32 AM

How about movies ruined by no gunfight at the end? ;)

MoviePropMaster2008 05-12-2017 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter (Post 43506)
They probably couldn't get blank guns, or a permit to use them

Not always true. Except in Japan, you can always get permission for a gunfight as long as you pay for it. Now if the filming is done on private property and you can't fire blanks because of the location, that's another thing.

I know of several movies which had 'shootouts' in museums and it was the museums themselves who said "NO BLANKS INSIDE" so they had to do the CGI route.

But crappy CGI is inexcusable.

S&Wshooter 05-25-2017 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 (Post 43568)
as long as you pay for it.

This could be a reason why a production couldn't get permission to use blanks, they broke


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