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-   -   12/20/11 States loosen concealed carry gun laws, USA TODAY (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1903)

mjp28 12-21-2011 05:43 AM

12/20/11 States loosen concealed carry gun laws, USA TODAY
 
States loosen concealed carry gun laws, stir debate

By Elizabeth Crisp, USA TODAY

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...gun/52082424/1

JACKSON, Miss. A Mississippi resident who receives a concealed carry permit and takes an eight-hour course can now carry a gun on college campuses, in bars and in courthouses.

As of this summer, Wyoming residents need no permits for concealed weapons. And in Indiana, private businesses must allow employees to keep firearms in their vehicles on company property.


Those and other recent changes on the state level represent a growing shift toward loosening state gun regulations, according to University of Chicago professor Jens Ludwig.

"When you look across the states, they are definitely moving in the direction of allowing concealed weapons in more locations," Ludwig says.

Supporters of the trend see it as a boost for gun rights. The National Rifle Association tracks the legislation online and has praised the new state laws.

Others say the trend could pose a threat to public safety.

"The gun lobby won't stop," says Brian Malte, of the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. Malte described the way he sees the trend for the past 10 years: guns "anytime, any place and for anyone."

Proponents of the shift say they are just trying to give law-abiding citizens a way to protect themselves.

"Somebody who's disturbed or a crook they're not going to care (if it's illegal to carry a gun in certain locations)," says Mississippi state Rep. Greg Snowden, a Republican who was one of three authors of an amendment that paved the way for the new policy here.

Alaska, Arizona and Vermont, like Wyoming, do not require permits for concealed guns, according to the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action.

Lawmakers in Colorado and Utah made similar proposals, but those bills died during the states' most recent legislative sessions, legislative records show.

Florida this year passed a law that would prevent pediatricians from asking about guns in patients' homes, according to the NRA legislation tracker. A federal judge has temporarily blocked the measure. Doctors found in violation would have lost their medical licenses and faced fines of up to $10,000, according to the law that was passed.

University of Mississippi Police Chief Calvin Sellers says he supports the right to own firearms, but he still thinks Mississippi's newest policy could be a "bad law."

"I just don't like the idea of people having firearms in a classroom," he says.

There have been several high-profile campus shootings in recent years, most notably the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting that killed 33 people and injured 25, and the shooting there earlier this month in which a campus police officer was killed by a gunman who subsequently killed himself.

Aside from the high-profile cases, David Burnett, spokesman for a national student-led group that supports concealed carry laws for college campuses, says he thinks allowing students to carry guns can help in situations of sexual assault, armed robbery or other crimes.

"This isn't just about the rare college shooting incidents," he says.

Spartan198 12-23-2011 12:00 PM

The only part of this I really don't agree with is allowing concealed carry in courtrooms, but I'm open to any opinions as to why I could be wrong.

Quote:

Florida this year passed a law that would prevent pediatricians from asking about guns in patients' homes
How is that even relevant to a pediatrician's job?

Excalibur 12-23-2011 01:32 PM

Don't like guns in classrooms? Whoever said that is stupid. Those school shootings happen regardless if there is a law or not for guns allowed on campus. If I went back to school and got cornered by an active shooter, I'd be wishing I had my gun. Thankfully, I am going to be a cop and will be allowed to have a gun anywhere

Spades of Columbia 12-23-2011 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan198 (Post 33618)
The only part of this I really don't agree with is allowing concealed carry in courtrooms, but I'm open to any opinions as to why I could be wrong.


How is that even relevant to a pediatrician's job?

So its impossible to be attacted or assualted while going into or leaving a Courtroom? or is it the idea that other people will be able to protect you in a courtroom?...what makes a courtroom special in this case especially since banks and classrooms where also mentioned

Excalibur 12-23-2011 05:11 PM

The courtroom thing. I would like to address the point that a courtroom isn't a heavily guarded place with constant patrols roaming around or that they are very secured places either. Unless the defendant is someone everyone wants dead, there isn't going to be a need for any officers there. So...yeah, I would feel much better armed. There have also been several cases where someone attacked a court house, one incident with an AK

Evil Tim 12-23-2011 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 33620)
Don't like guns in classrooms? Whoever said that is stupid. Those school shootings happen regardless if there is a law or not for guns allowed on campus.

More to the point, an American child is more likely to die from being struck by lightning than from being involved in a school shooting.

BeardedHoplite 12-23-2011 06:23 PM

I don't know, people packing in schools seems like an invitation for trouble. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but if you let firearms into a the school it just seems like it would up the possibilty of spmething minor blowing up and becoming a shooting.

Other than that, yay for gun rights

Excalibur 12-23-2011 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedHoplite (Post 33628)
I don't know, people packing in schools seems like an invitation for trouble. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but if you let firearms into a the school it just seems like it would up the possibilty of spmething minor blowing up and becoming a shooting.

Other than that, yay for gun rights

Ok first off, people walk around with guns ALL the time. It's like saying people owning a gun and having road rage is trouble. I drive with my gun on my all the time. If I get into a fender bender, it doesn't mean I'll brandish my gun like a fucking cowboy. Most gun owners are not like that. We're not talking about high school kids legally packing heat. If gangbanger teens want to get guns, they WILL regardless of the law or not. And if you look at a lot of colleges, we don't see kids, we see a lot of adults, some with family and kids attending. I mean you have to be 21 to even get a handgun in most states and most people attend college for the full 4 years, so straight out of high school, you are 18, so that means almost 3 years have passed before you can even own a handgun, and in a lot of people's cases at that age, even afford a gun of some type, get the proper training, ammo, gear, etc. Getting a gun is one thing, but maintaining it is something else. It's a commitment.

The excuse that it'll turn into the OK Corral and Dodge city is bullshit

The Wierd It 12-23-2011 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 33620)
Those school shootings happen regardless if there is a law or not for guns allowed on campus.

Remember, Laws only affect the Law-abiding.

Spartan198 12-23-2011 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spades of Columbia (Post 33624)
So its impossible to be attacted or assualted while going into or leaving a Courtroom? or is it the idea that other people will be able to protect you in a courtroom?...what makes a courtroom special in this case especially since banks and classrooms where also mentioned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 33626)
The courtroom thing. I would like to address the point that a courtroom isn't a heavily guarded place with constant patrols roaming around or that they are very secured places either. Unless the defendant is someone everyone wants dead, there isn't going to be a need for any officers there. So...yeah, I would feel much better armed. There have also been several cases where someone attacked a court house, one incident with an AK

I've never been in a courtroom, so I figured they were pretty secure, especially post-9/11.

Excalibur 12-23-2011 11:09 PM

It also depends on the situation. I've been to many small town court houses and there aren't even any guards in a lot of them unless there's a case going on.

S&Wshooter 12-24-2011 03:47 AM

I'd feel safer if I were able to legally carry on campus. I have to wait at a transit center in a shitty part of town for significant amounts of time every day, and every couple of days I'll see a group of people who make me feel very unsafe

I want that "have to be 21 to buy a pistol" bullshit to be gone, too. You are more likely to kill someone with a car than with a gun, so why can I get a driver's license at 16 but have to wait until I am 21 before I can purchase a revolver?

mjp28 12-25-2011 09:27 PM

There aren't many guarantees in life but I'll guarantee you this:

In every shooting with some wacko at a school, restaurant, mall, business I'll guarantee there are people wishing and praying for someone, anyone with a gun to shoot this wacko and end it now.

By the time the police show up it's generally too late.

And the wackos will get guns laws or no laws, they will steal them if necessary.

I'd love to see just once a decent, hard working, tax paying citizen with a CCW permit just drill one of these slimeballs. ;)

Spartan198 12-26-2011 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjp28 (Post 33662)
And the wackos will get guns laws or no laws, they will steal them if necessary.

A fact the anti-gun lobby is seemingly oblivious to.

Excalibur 12-26-2011 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjp28 (Post 33662)

I'd love to see just once a decent, hard working, tax paying citizen with a CCW permit just drill one of these slimeballs. ;)

There are...you just don't see them in the news

mjp28 12-26-2011 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 33669)
There are...you just don't see them in the news

I'd like to see more of them, maybe a CCW stops robbery count? CCW stops other crime count? Even homeowners shoot or protect their own other other lives count?

I'm sure sick of what I SEE ON THE 6 & 11pm crime stats almost every night!

mjp28 12-26-2011 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter (Post 33638)
I'd feel safer if I were able to legally carry on campus. I have to wait at a transit center in a shitty part of town for significant amounts of time every day, and every couple of days I'll see a group of people who make me feel very unsafe

I want that "have to be 21 to buy a pistol" bullshit to be gone, too. You are more likely to kill someone with a car than with a gun, so why can I get a driver's license at 16 but have to wait until I am 21 before I can purchase a revolver?

Yeah that's a tough call, I feel for your situation some (how many?) 16, 17, 18 maybe 19 even 20 year olds might not be mature enough to carry a deadly weapon....not including 18+ year olds in our armed forces!!

Maybe some special exemption for "some" 18+ year olds, without mountains of paperwork. Question, do you at least have pepper spray mace? Not just mace, I prefer the 10% pepper which is more effective, even on some dogs which do not have tear ducts or really drugged out people.

S&Wshooter 12-26-2011 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjp28 (Post 33671)
Question, do you at least have pepper spray mace? Not just mace, I prefer the 10% pepper which is more effective, even on some dogs which do not have tear ducts or really drugged out people.

Nope. If I carry some kind of spray, I want something that'll blind whoever I spray FOREVER

I do have one of these, though

http://www.knife.cz/Portals/0/Obrazk...y/IMG_0576.jpg

k9870 12-26-2011 04:14 AM

I've always wondered, if i open carried at work would i get more tips?

mjp28 12-26-2011 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter (Post 33672)
Nope. If I carry some kind of spray, I want something that'll blind whoever I spray FOREVER

I do have one of these, though

http://www.knife.cz/Portals/0/Obrazk...y/IMG_0576.jpg

I'll tell you what, pepper spray is nasty stuff sprays up to 20' on full charge, I have the hand helds in my car, desk, outside. It can save your butt in a jam. You can even get a key chain spray -but- you have to be real close.

I insist my wife carrys hers.

Excalibur 12-26-2011 05:37 PM

A spray can sometime takes too long to get out and be readied for use and under a stressful situation, your muscle memory might not work well with it.

I do have a thing about certain age groups owning gun. I think the legal limit should stay the way it is but with exceptions. Say you're 18 and want a pistol. You take a course that shows you are mentally and physically prepared to handle it. The stupid drinking age limit is kinda stupid as it is anyway. But I think the 21 for handguns is just a cut off date for the general public.

S&Wshooter 12-26-2011 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 33679)
I do have a thing about certain age groups owning gun. I think the legal limit should stay the way it is but with exceptions. Say you're 18 and want a pistol. You take a course that shows you are mentally and physically prepared to handle it.

That'd be fine with me

k9870 12-26-2011 06:59 PM

I think 18 and up for guns, handguns included, why can i get an ar/ak/fal but not a handgun? The "handguns are more dangerous" people are stupid. The only nd my range ever had was a ar15 that some moron shot over the berm

Spades of Columbia 12-26-2011 09:44 PM

you only have to be 21 to "Purchase" a hand gun...you are allowed to own one younger if it is gifted to you from a friend or family member.

k9870 12-27-2011 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spades of Columbia (Post 33684)
you only have to be 21 to "Purchase" a hand gun...you are allowed to own one younger if it is gifted to you from a friend or family member.

i private saled my first handgun from a friend who was lookin to upgrade to a semi and already had a 357 rifle so ammo wasnt a prob. Still gay though, and some people A. Have anti gun parents and cant have it gifted and B. Want to get what they want, not just what happens to be in classifieds.

S&Wshooter 12-27-2011 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spades of Columbia (Post 33684)
you only have to be 21 to "Purchase" a hand gun...you are allowed to own one younger if it is gifted to you from a friend or family member.

That reminds me of my twelfth birthday, when my dad handed me a Capri Sun box containing a S&W 686

mjp28 12-27-2011 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 33679)
A spray can sometime takes too long to get out and be readied for use and under a stressful situation, your muscle memory might not work well with it.

Actually they're more of a pistol grip, just practice gripping it a few times or test fire a new or old one. They have a belt clip and key chain. (I have this one, $14.95, $13.95/ 3 or more)

Actually my test sprays were more straight line than this picture and you put your thumb under the flip top.

http://www.sportys.com/source/images...large/3434.jpg

Spades of Columbia 12-27-2011 03:52 AM

yeah, spray sounds cool until you get a slight breeze and then you'll be on the ground next to your attacker. I suggest a pepper gel like Kimber makes called the pepper blaster. You wont get blow back like with the sprays and its fired off by a shotgun primer so the gel flies at 90 MPH...the dude with be debilitated for atleast 45mins. It will even break thru glasses.

Excalibur 12-27-2011 04:07 AM

My thing about guns to those under a certain age as i said before is unique for each kid. If someone is 18 and is mentally capable of handling a gun, that's ok but people I know who are 25 are just not ready to even touch a gun let alone own one.

mjp28 12-27-2011 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spades of Columbia (Post 33690)
yeah, spray sounds cool until you get a slight breeze and then you'll be on the ground next to your attacker. I suggest a pepper gel like Kimber makes called the pepper blaster. You wont get blow back like with the sprays and its fired off by a shotgun primer so the gel flies at 90 MPH...the dude with be debilitated for atleast 45mins. It will even break thru glasses.

The original thought was for underage personal protection, pepper spray can be handy.

Pepper spray in certain situations like breaking up a bunch of kids fighting when you can't just shoot them or warding off an unarmed or drunk coming toward you.....or getting MJ tennis shoes.

You can't always just come out blasting. Now if your life is in imminent danger sure fire away, just make sure you know exactly what you're doing.

For example if someone breaks into my house.......:eek:

Excalibur 01-02-2012 04:31 AM

If someone is coming at me with a knife or anything that can kill me or seriously hurt me, that guy is going to get shot regardless. Now if I can get away, avoid a fight, of course I won't draw. It depends on the situation. If an intruder enters my house, my gun is coming out and he will be shot dead.

BeardedHoplite 01-02-2012 03:52 PM

Quote:

If an intruder enters my house, my gun is coming out and he will be shot dead.
I don't think a break-in to someone's house necessitates a shoot on sight policy.If that is your stance on it, why not set up some shotguns at all your doors and windows a la Way of the Gun when you go to sleep? If the guy is just some petty thug or crackhead who busted a window, you can draw on him, sure, but I don't think killing him is necessary.

If he threatens you or has a gun himself, by all means, blast away.

Evil Tim 01-02-2012 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedHoplite (Post 33749)
If the guy is just some petty thug or crackhead who busted a window, you can draw on him, sure, but I don't think killing him is necessary.

That does rather violate that rule about never pointing a gun at something unless you're fully prepared to shoot it, though.

S&Wshooter 01-03-2012 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedHoplite (Post 33749)
I don't think a break-in to someone's house necessitates a shoot on sight policy.If that is your stance on it, why not set up some shotguns at all your doors and windows a la Way of the Gun when you go to sleep? If the guy is just some petty thug or crackhead who busted a window, you can draw on him, sure, but I don't think killing him is necessary.

If he threatens you or has a gun himself, by all means, blast away.

If someone breaks into a house while it is occupied, they probably have absolutely no problem killing the residents.

If someone breaks into my house while I am there, I am going to shoot them until they fall down. If they die because of it, fine by me.

k9870 01-03-2012 04:28 PM

I had someone walk into my old house since he was given the wrong adress and my house looked like my neighbors house since area was built by same people. You cant just shoot someone, you have to give warning.

I also don't get why so many people say if you pull a gun you are required to shoot it, i know for sure im allowed to just show it and get a threat to rethink their actions.

Excalibur 01-03-2012 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9870 (Post 33755)
I had someone walk into my old house since he was given the wrong adress and my house looked like my neighbors house since area was built by same people. You cant just shoot someone, you have to give warning.

Castle doctrine. If a stranger that you weren't expecting is inside your house, you are in the right. Also, HOW did someone just walk into your house? Do you leave your doors unlocked? If it was in the day time, I would still draw on him if I can see that there is no visible weapons, but holy shit, if I am sitting hear typing this post and suddenly someone I don't know appears in my living room....yeah I think my 45 is coming out. I would also have called the cops too by that point and would have held the man at gun point. How do I know if what he says is the truth. That he got the "wrong address". A stranger just shows up INSIDE my house and claims he got the wrong address? Oops?


When I was working in the kitchen at my parent's restaurant out of the blue, some random guy came rushing in from the back. We have apparently forgotten to lock the back door. Now we own this place and I was working for them. I am allowed to carry my gun while working. I wasn't wondering if the guy was armed and reached for my gun cause he's trespassing on us. He was breathing hard and frantic. I didn't know what his intentions were and this was so out of no where, I needed to be prepared. I ended up chasing the guy off without drawing on him and I called the cops to show up because he claimed someone was after him. I asked him to stay outside because I don't know him.

k9870 01-04-2012 02:08 AM

My old house door was unlocked, it got straightened out, my next door neighbors were having a barbecue and out back cooking so they had told him to just come in.

What im saying is you cant just open fire on someone unless they are a threat. Draw your gun and try and hold them till cops come dont just double tap and claim catle doctrine. I know someone who held a plumber up with a glock 23 cause her sister had called him there (roommates) without telling her. She had the right to hold an unknown up with a gun sure but imagine if internet forum rambo (ive seen a lot on tfl/glocktalk who think you should just go around open carrying and shooting bad guys all day) had gunned down an innocent man for no reason?

BeardedHoplite 01-04-2012 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9870 (Post 33757)
What im saying is you cant just open fire on someone unless they are a threat. Draw your gun and try and hold them till cops come dont just double tap and claim catle doctrine. I know someone who held a plumber up with a glock 23 cause her sister had called him there (roommates) without telling her. She had the right to hold an unknown up with a gun sure but imagine if internet forum rambo (ive seen a lot on tfl/glocktalk who think you should just go around open carrying and shooting bad guys all day) had gunned down an innocent man for no reason?

This.
I'm all for defending the home, but blasting away when someone sets a toe in your home is waaaaaay too far.

S&Wshooter 01-04-2012 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedHoplite (Post 33760)
This.
I'm all for defending the home, but blasting away when someone sets a toe in your home is waaaaaay too far.

"Break in" and "wander in" are two very different things

Krel 01-04-2012 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedHoplite (Post 33760)
This.
I'm all for defending the home, but blasting away when someone sets a toe in your home is waaaaaay too far.

So you're saying to wait until they get their whole foot inside the home. Gotcha. ;)

David.


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