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-   -   "on-duty" vs. "off-duty" police weapons. (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2204)

2wingo 05-13-2013 11:14 PM

"on-duty" vs. "off-duty" police weapons.
 
I notice that these terms get thrown around a lot, and it has raised a few questions:

1.) Are cops not allowed to carry their issued sidearm when not on duty?

2.) Are they obligated to carry only what their department issues them when on duty, or can they also carry their own choice of sidearm?

SPEMack618 05-14-2013 04:03 PM

JCordell can probably shed some more light on this.

However, in my city/county, it isn't so much that the officers aren't allowed to carry their issue piece while off duty, in fact, all of our Deputies are mandated to carry off duty, but just a matter of convience.

The Dept. issues the Glock 17 and the Glock 22, several Deputies carry Government Models, and one carries a S&W Model 13, loaded with the "FBI Load."

Those are big, full sized guns. Kinda hard to carry when not wearing a full duty belt.

So, hence the off duty piece.

Excalibur 05-14-2013 05:52 PM

I asked my buddy in my local PD. He said that to carry any personal weapon for off duty, you would have to qualify with it just as you would you on duty gun. His department uses the Glock 22/23s and his off duty, depending on weather is the Glock 29 or the S&W Bodyguard .380

2wingo 05-14-2013 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 39056)
I asked my buddy in my local PD. He said that to carry any personal weapon for off duty, you would have to qualify with it just as you would you on duty gun. His department uses the Glock 22/23s and his off duty, depending on weather is the Glock 29 or the S&W Bodyguard .380

What exactly constitutes "qualifying?"

SPEMack618 05-14-2013 11:16 PM

Depends on the department and the officer's job.

Generally, it isn't that much, but enough to ensure proficiency, sometimes.

Like, I said it varies by department.

I recently got promoted in the Guard. No more squad to lead, instead I work in the S-3 shop.

Our last qualification, I fired 50 rounds from my Beretta for no score, just shoot the weapon and show I can reload.

The last time before that when I qualified, I shot for score like I was shooting for an expert medal again., which was only 30 rounds, but for score.

funkychinaman 05-14-2013 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2wingo (Post 39061)
What exactly constitutes "qualifying?"

Demonstrating competence with the weapon.

Excalibur 05-15-2013 01:39 AM

And most cops would just go through the motions of qualifications. They would score the LOWEST possible of points that is needed to pass and then move onto their careers. Some, which I like, are perfectionists and they won't leave until they score the highest.

2wingo 05-15-2013 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 39064)
And most cops would just go through the motions of qualifications. They would score the LOWEST possible of points that is needed to pass and then move onto their careers. Some, which I like, are perfectionists and they won't leave until they score the highest.

Could an officer attempt qualification with any firearm, say, a single-action revolver?

SPEMack618 05-15-2013 11:33 PM

Again, depends on the department. Generally, you have to qualify with what you carry.

Some more rural departments let their officers carry anything, assuming they can qualify with it.

I have a picture of my county's Sheriff and his two deputies, circa 1932, and one of them has a Colt M-1873 of some sort.

AdAstra2009 05-16-2013 04:08 AM

Everything depends on what department your in. My local department for example requires you to carry while you are in the county and that it must be concealed. Also by default you carry your duty weapon off duty unless you opt to qualify with another gun for off duty.

Jcordell 05-19-2013 01:56 PM

My issue sidearm is the Glock 19. I can carry the G19 off-duty if I wish.

My back-up can be either a revolver or semi-auto. I'm authorized up to three different pistols for my off-duty/BUG if I so desire. As of this date I am qualified with my Glock 26 and the S&W Model 49 as my off-duty/BUG (Back-Up Gun) pieces. The Model 49 I carry in a shoulder holster under my uniform shirt and the G26 sit next to me in my patrol car in an easy to reach spot. Obviously the G19 is on my equipment belt.

My agency's firearms policy states in writing that our off-duty/backup piece can be no caliber under .380 at not over .45 ACP. The ammo has to be quality factory manufactured hollow points. I carry Hornady's Critical Inccident 38 Special +P in my S&W Model 49 - which is my back up. My 9mm ammo is the Federal HST 9mm +P 124 grain jacketed hollow point. I carry that ammo in both the G19 and the G26. That's the issue ammo so I just got more for my G26. It makes life a little more simple to have the same ammo in both guns.

If the off-duty/BUG has a barrel under three inches then one shoots what we call the "short course". In other words we don't shoot past 15 yards. There are various drills and all are timed. You have to get at least 80% to qualify.

For our "on-duty" pistols and off-duty/BUG pieces that have a barrel 3 inches or longer one has to shoot the standard course. It consists of shooting timed and un-timed drills. The un-timed portion involves accuracy and you can only throw two outside of the circles on the target. You start at 3 yards and go back to 25 yards. You also have to make five head shots from 15 yards. Not real hard, but I've seen officers have trouble with that. It's mostly psychological. This portion consists of 28 rounds.

The timed portion opens up on the target. You can't throw any outside of the larger body portion of the target. You don't go farther then fifteen yards from the target. Some of the drills have you drawing from your holster and a couple have you starting from the ready position. This portion consists of ten rounds. We're considering incorporating movement into this portion of the test. Right now we're still in the testing stage.

Keep in mind this is just my agency. I can't speak for others.

*One last thing. I carry the G19 as do a handful of other officers who were already employed when we went to a general issue in 2006. The G19 was the alternate pistol. Everyone else went with the G21. All officers hired after October 1 2006 are issued the G21 and don't get an alternate choice. If they can't qualify with the G21 they don't get to work for us. I can shoot the G21, but I don't like that big old grip. The G21 SF and the Gen 4 models are better, but I just like the G19.

Before we went to issuing Glock we could carry either semi-autos or revolvers as our primary sidearm. For revolvers the calibers were restricted to either .38 Spl or .357 magnum. I started here in 2000 and the last officer to carry a revolver (as his primary - not his BUG/Off-duty) had retired in 96.

Semi-autos could be Sig, Beretta, Walther, S&W, Colt, Ruger, H&K or Browning. If you wanted to carry either a 1911 or the Browning Hi-Power you had to go through an extra eight hours of training because you would have to carry them cocked and locked. Authorized calibers were 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. The department issued the duty ammo which was Federal Hydra-shock jacketed hollow-points.you bought your own sidearm and could deduct the expense from your taxes.

Some agencies still do that, but as we have continued to grow the decision was made to go to a general issue and scale back on having three different types of ammo. Several of our newer officers have asked if they could carry the G19 but they can't. some of the older officers who started with the G21 have since gone to the G19. You can switch once, but no more than once. So if I go to the G21 then I can't switch back. I'm not going to do that.

Once again this is my agency's policy. Not every police department in the United States.

Hope this helps.


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