I don't even find that metal is that good for working out, especially the 80s hair metal. The entire reason I have my iPod at the gym is because 90% of the time, they've got some 80s rock station blaring AC/DC or Poison from the speakers, and that's not what gets me pumped up. I mostly listen to pop, hip-hop, and electronic music while lifting - mostly because that's the kind of stuff you hear at clubs, so it reminds me why I'm even at the gym in the first place. :D

Also, when I think of hair metal fans, I always think of 40-something ex-jocks who have an unhealthy obsession with their high school football days, and teenagers who are ex-jocks in the making. Which is not me, to the say the least (or my generation, for that matter). Maybe I wouldn't mind it so much if those dudes and their music didn't monopolize every gym where I've ever been a member.

That being said, I do have a special place in my heart for "Right Now" by Van Halen. It's one of those songs that motivates me to do almost anything, and which I still listen to on a regular basis.

MT, Hair metal isn't metal (neither is ACDC, just so you know)

AC/DC is proto-metal, at least, even though they were around in the 70s.

As for hair metal, it's not metal? Come on. It may be bad metal, but that doesn't mean it ceases to be metal.

Hair metal is a sub-genre of metal, and while it probably isn't what S&W is talking about, it's still a form of metal. AC/DC is technically not metal but was a significant influence.

Anyhow, metal music, to me, is kind of a loud clusterfuck of vocals, typically with irrelevant subject matter and a lot of distortion, and instruments being pushed to their sound limits, all of which is usually as loud as it can possibly be. I personally don't like it, as I like lyrical content and I generally just don't like the sound, at least not more than hip-hop bass or simple acoustic/electric guitar. Metal is more complicated where I want it to be simpler, and vice versa. I got friends that like it/know it, but it doesn't trip my trigger, at least not like other genres.

I've always thought AC/DC can be considered somewhat metal. All Music Guide lists them within Heavy Metal (though it also says they can be considered Hard Rock, Arena Rock, etc.)

Come on, there's plenty of hip-hop that is utterly devoid of any meaningful lyrical content. I listened to hip-hop long enough to appreciate that the "heads" love to rip on all of the "gangsta" and "pop"-rappers who don't "keep it real" or whatever.

As for the music, it's easy to attack hip-hop for being totally uncomplicated, since it is based on sampling and sequencing rather than playing an instrument (except for The Roots and a few others).

That's more of a description of modern, radio-played hip-hop, and I don't listen to that. As for your second statement, I'm not sure if you're still disagreeing with me or just pointing something out, but that parallels my point. The music is a mix of previously made sounds and (hopefully, if not most of the time) an original beat, and most of the time, that's enough for the song to work, granted the rapper is talented.

the metal i lift to is less vocals and more about the beat

I'd call it "recognizing a nuance". My point is that both hip-hop and metal have produced a lot of crap, but that it's just as easy to criticize hip-hop as metal.

Also, don't kid yourself...90% of what you hear in hip-hop beats is just straight sampled. Even hip-hop songs that do use live instrumentation in the beat are borrowing somebody's melody or notes. There is very little original music in hip-hop. That's not my opinion, either; it's pretty much a fact. Any time you hear a hip-hop song where you think the beat is original, just go to http://the-breaks.com/ and you'll probably find that it's sampled from George Clinton or Zapp or whoever else.

I'm not sure how this became a debate over which genre is more "original", but there isn't anything wrong with sampling nor does it make the production of the music unoriginal or uncomplicated.

Most rap songs sample, but it doesn't mean their music or songs are second for second, sound for sound ripped from something that already exists. I checked the samples on that site with a few songs I have, and the samples are usually just a short part of the song or used in the intro or end, and at the very worst, all they do is take a portion of the song and loop it, while still producing a beat of their own to go with or over it. There's a fine line between sampling and straight dubbing or copying someone elses work, and it shouldn't be seen as a lack of creativity on the song producers part if he samples, not copies, but samples.

That being said, I don't know if 90 percent is an accurate figure, unless we're talking about the amount of songs that just sample rather than the amount of songs which are full on 100 percent composed of nothing but other people's work i:e covers and stuff like that. Besides, the prevalence of sampling is just what hip hop music is and has been for the last 30-40 years, as it's more or less an invention of DJs toying around with their machines and records and in turn producing a new music genre. It's kind of like making a collage with yours and others artwork, there's some obvious influence and media borrowed from places, but it still belonga to the creator. It is what it is, and I wouldn't hold it against rap/hip-hop as you do.

Even with that, you still further strengthen my original point that I prefer hip-hop because it's a bit simpler with regard to music and puts more emphasis on lyrics (though the quality of the subject matter vaires from artist to artist, but ultimately you can understand what they are saying at the very least). The music and beat are mostly a vehicle for the rapper, but can still sound dope on it's own too, whereas something like metal stress the instruments and not so much the lyrical content, which really doesn't do anything for me as it manifests an inverse of my priorities for music, and generally I just don't like the sound of the music as a standalone, so it really does nothing for me, as least when I'm not in the tough thrashy mood where all I want to do is listen to something loud and powerful, but I can find a rap song that will serve that purpose, as well as others for more mellow moods. I'm sure you guys like it for whatever reason, but most metal just doesn't meet my criteria for what I consider listenable music.

How ironic- MT and YNH are derailing my thread :p