Game development copyright issues (Gun related)
 

Hi, I got an interesting question. For games like Counter-Strike for example, they rename firearms such as the Glock 18
to "9x19mm Sidearm". I believe that is to avoid copyright issues.

But isn't the ingame model you see the same as the real life counterpart? If the handgun model ingame looks similar to the real life
counterpart, wouldn't that be a copyright issue? I think I'm missing something here...

Luckily for Counter Strike, the model isn't the same.
As in most shooters nowadays, gun models are made with certain parts flipped around. This is why ejection ports are on the left side in most games.
However, there are a lot of games that do get permission or licensing rights for the guns.

Do you really need a licence to call it it's name? And besides, what gun manufacturer will refuse FREE advertising?

Ah... so they change minor parts unseen by many. Interesting

That's what I realise for many games. They could've easily named an smg HK MP5 but no I don't see it. I've never seen a game that names a weapon exactly as the real counterpart. Counter-strike is a perfect example. Then I realise it actually has something to do with copyrights.

In resident Evil 5 most of the guns had authentic names, up to and including the manufacturer. The M9 in game was called the “Beretta M9F,” the P8 was called the “H&K P8,” the MP5 was called the “H&K MP5”. The weapon features where also realistic, you could even distinguish the P8 from a regular USP by the reversed safety lever. Most game developers take the “easy” way, but some do shell out the extra money for licensing rights to make the weapons head-to-toe legit. If you look closely at the pistol slides, you can even see authentic trademarks.

Maybe because if the gun's not depicted as the BFG people'll think it's bad, or something

Apparently you've never heard of the copyright wars between real gun makers and airsoft copies. That "Well it's free advertising" doesn't cut it with the lawyers of such gun makers as Heckler & Koch and Glock. Why do you think most Airsoft gun makers STOPPED making Glocks, because Glock copyrighted the SHAPE of the weapon. H&K did the same thing. Note that now the only approved weapons are those which pay a license fee to the original manufacturers. Why do you think that only a few of the AR-15 manufacturers are listed in Airsoft copies. Because those are the only companies who granted licenses to use their names/company logos.....

You can copyright shape?

Since we're here, I read this a while ago, and I thought it was a bit strange. Maybe someone here can clarify this for me.

From Wikipedia, regarding the HK 416: "The project was originally called the HK M4, but this was changed in response to a trademark infringement suit filed by Colt Defense."

Wasn't M4 a military designation? Can you trademark that? I can understand trademarking a name that the company assigned it, like AR-15, Minimi, or USP, but it was the Army that named it the M4, was it not?

I think since Colt designed the M4 for the military, it would be a copyright name under their company. That's why the Canadian M4s aren't called M4s and neither are the English ones used by SAS

Game guns are made to different designs sometimes.
FPS games usually have to model them more thoroughly, but other games can get away with different stuff.
Max Payne 2, fr'instance has low detail models for the most part, but high detail textures I think they scanned in or something.

Looking back over that post it doesn't make much coherent sense. I've been awake for a long time now, probably should go to bed.

Yeah, but foreign countries have their own military designations, there's no reason to expect them to use ours. And Colt would have a patent on the design, but there's no reason to expect them to have a trademark on a name that they didn't come up with themselves, is there? (Do companies like Bushmaster or Stag Arms pay Colt a license fee for their M4s then?)

I think the name thing is about brand power.
Like you can make Coke if you could figure out the recipe. That's no prob.
But if you call it Coke so people will buy it, there's the obvious rub.

M4 was already determined to be a generic term for shorter ar-15, colt and bushmaster already had that argument.

...which is exactly why it would be almost impossible to copyright the shape of the M4, unlike H&Ks or Glocks. If I recall, the M4A1 was called the "Maverick M4A1" in the retail version of "Counter-Strike".

Wow, Glock actually got to copyright the shape of its pistols? It's so boxy and generic it's no wonder that the original Half-Life FPS game made it the standard sidearm there, since in those days they could get away with such a limited polygon budget and still make the pistol look realistic.

If I had more time I would have made this thread myself, because something about guns in video games greatly confuses me: just how much is the licensing fee to use the real names of guns? Anyone got a ballpark figure? Is it so high that only the best-financed companies can get real names for all their guns?

I'm also very confused as to why H&K didn't give its permission for something like SWAT 4. Isn't the HK MP5 one of the most iconic guns for Counter-Terrorist units like SWAT teams? Why wouldn't they want the MP5 to be associated with that game? Colt and Benelli agreed; why not H&K?

Wasn't there a UMP in that game?

That has nothing to do with copyrights, that's simply a matter of different designation preferences (the British MoD designates everything with "L" - i.e. L85 - rather than "M", as in the U.S. military). The M4s used by the SAS are not manufactured in British factories (as best I know, they use American-made weapons supplied by the U.S. government), so copyright issues are irrelevant.

Yes, there was an HK UMP, and an HK G36C, but all of them went under assumed names. Pretty weird given how much H&K is represented among the arsenals of counter-terrorist units.

No, the Beretta in the game was under "Beretta M92FS". Not quite the manufacturer designation, but Capcom has a licensing agreement with Beretta for the 92FS, which has been a franchise mainstay since the original Resident Evil.

SAS use the Canadian C8FTHB, not the M4.

Does it bother you that most weapons in Call of Duty Black Ops are anachronistic? NVA with SPAS12 shotguns????
Modern Warfare 2 was really good. It was money well spent - Except for Some Russian invading forces carrying TMP's and MP5K's as primary weapons (grab your SMG's we're going to invade USA comrades!) -
Anyways, I think this was a step back.

If you know you're invading the land of shopping malls and urban sprawl, maybe you want some good close-in equipment?

The logistics of fielding like 20 different guns would be a bitch.

That's true. I'd like a game to simulate magazines more in depth. Maybe loading a few mags with different ammo, having to reload the magazines when you go back to base. Having different capacities between mags.

It's weird, in games where you upgrade a gun by buying magazines, and suddenly: only hi-capacity magazines exist.

Yes, it bothers me. And I've never even played the game! :p

Ah, OK, forgot about that. I believe they did receive M16s and CAR-15s from the U.S., though (they've been using ARs since the 1960s, long before Canada started making them).

I believe it was toronto swat that up to recently used m16a1s after dismal accuracy in their old "skinny mini" 14s.

Quantum of Solace (the video game) had some exact or closely-accurate modeled Walther firearms. The P99 was even modeled with a serial number on the back of the frame, below the slide/cocking indicator.

Canadian manufacturer, American design. It's just about the same rifle. They just call it something else. The UK uses the Benelli M4 but call it something else while the US military calls it the M1014 even though it's the same gun

Hmm.. interesting... I think they have the rights to that one

The Walthers were the only guns in the game that were called by their real names.

Everyone here gets miffed when someone refers to a Type 56 as an AK-47, right? Chinese manufacturer, Russian design. Well, I reserve the right to get miffed when someone refers to a C8FTHB as an M4 and lecture that person. Just like there are external differences between the Type 56 and AK-47 to warrant them being separate guns, there are external differences between a C8FTHB and an M4 which warrant them being separate guns.

Because it is the same gun, inside and out, with the only difference (AFAIK) being a separate Land Force designation, which isn't the case with the C8FTHB (or L119A1) and the M4.

M4
http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/ed/ColtM4.jpg

C8FTHB/L119A1
http://www.gun-world.net/usa/m16/diemaco/sfw-hand.jpg