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-   -   Short Barrel non NFA the new norm (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2544)

Evil Tim 01-27-2018 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commando552 (Post 44025)
The thing that I am unsure of with a 12 gauge using this system is the fact that it is over .50 cal. There is generally an exemption for shotguns that use this round, but the problem in this case is that the whole point of the grooves is to make this weapon legally not a shotgun so I don't see how it falls under that exemption.
In this case the exemption is on the cartridge, not the weapon

("any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes...")

so you're not a DD because you're firing a common sporting shotgun cartridge even though you're not a shotgun. Otherwise all stockless shotguns would be DDs and they're not, they're AOWs.

The ATF can make individual rulings that guns which fire a shotgun cartridge are destructive devices regardless of their features using the "sporting purpose" test, that's what happened to things like the Street Sweeper and USAS-12.

commando552 01-27-2018 10:57 PM
To be honest, normally when I see an AR "pistol" my emotions range between feeling absolutely nothing, and thinking it is fucking stupid. However, for some reason I actually kind of like the new FliteLite SCR Raider.

Spartan198 01-28-2018 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commando552 (Post 44032)
To be honest, normally when I see an AR "pistol" my emotions range between feeling absolutely nothing, and thinking it is fucking stupid. However, for some reason I actually kind of like the new FliteLite SCR Raider.
The SCR Raider has a nifty look to it, but I'm more concerned by the fact that they had a loaded belt-fed machine just sitting there on the table behind them.

Mandolin 01-28-2018 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 (Post 44034)
The SCR Raider has a nifty look to it, but I'm more concerned by the fact that they had a loaded belt-fed machine just sitting there on the table behind them.
Have to be dummy rounds, no way anyone is getting away with a live gun at SHOT show

Excalibur 01-28-2018 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commando552 (Post 44032)
To be honest, normally when I see an AR "pistol" my emotions range between feeling absolutely nothing, and thinking it is fucking stupid. However, for some reason I actually kind of like the new FliteLite SCR Raider.
Why do you have such feelings on an AR pistol?

A brace essentially makes it feel like an SBR but it legally isn't.

commando552 01-28-2018 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 44037)
Why do you have such feelings on an AR pistol?

A brace essentially makes it feel like an SBR but it legally isn't.
I more mean actual "pistol" guns where there is no pseudo stock are the kind that I don't like. These always look silly to me as due to the AR design they have the buffer tube sticking out at the back and they always look kind of awkward. With the SCR it is a lot more sleek and refined looking, and it actually looks like it works firing it without a stock and could actually be pretty effective with a sling. I also like it from a theatrical point of view, as I can imagine these being good in films and TV carried concealed under jackets.

I don't really have a problem with the braced type, although to be honest for an AR I would personally rather have a 14.5" barrel with a permanent flash hider with a proper adjustable stock.

Excalibur 01-29-2018 03:26 PM
For me, I own an AR pistol and play to build a couple more in different calibers, is thanks to the braces and partly political.

I do not want to give up the freedom to own a weapon without it being registered with the government and subject it to a tax stamp and making it unable to be changed back. I would either have to sell it to another guy with a tax stamp or destroy it.

Suppressors is really where I would draw the line but even that is still stupid to me.

The concept for me is that you can accomplish a lot of the same thing on an 11.5 in barrel as you would a 14.5 in and excelling in CQB without adapting to the length of the gun.

With Shot Show over, there's a few newer braces including a 5 position adjustable one that is even more 1 step from being a stock.

StanTheMan 02-11-2018 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commando552 (Post 44039)
To be honest, normally when I see an AR "pistol" my emotions range between feeling absolutely nothing, and thinking it is fucking stupid. However, for some reason I actually kind of like the new FliteLite SCR Raider.

....

I more mean actual "pistol" guns where there is no pseudo stock are the kind that I don't like. These always look silly to me as due to the AR design they have the buffer tube sticking out at the back and they always look kind of awkward. With the SCR it is a lot more sleek and refined looking, and it actually looks like it works firing it without a stock and could actually be pretty effective with a sling. I also like it from a theatrical point of view, as I can imagine these being good in films and TV carried concealed under jackets.

I don't really have a problem with the braced type, although to be honest for an AR I would personally rather have a 14.5" barrel with a permanent flash hider with a proper adjustable stock.
Same here pretty much all the way. I grant there are some shortys that don't look as silly - the Raider being one of them - but I don't know. Mainly it just looks like what it is, a big gun chopped down all tacky like. I guess it's just the old fashioned part of me that thinks a rifle/carbine is supposed to be, well, a rifle/carbine. Proper stock and all as said. But yes, seems to be the popular dish now. I wonder what will be the deal in a decade or so.

Excalibur 02-12-2018 11:08 PM
If they remove suppressors and SBR/SBS from the NFA, this wouldn't be a discussion.

For me, my shorty is a truck gun. I keep it broken down in a backpack in my car for whatever. The same with my carry gun. Will I ever need it? Statistically, most likely not but...you never know. I also have a good first aid kit and a fire extinguisher too

commando552 02-13-2018 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 44085)
If they remove suppressors and SBR/SBS from the NFA, this wouldn't be a discussion.

For me, my shorty is a truck gun. I keep it broken down in a backpack in my car for whatever. The same with my carry gun. Will I ever need it? Statistically, most likely not but...you never know. I also have a good first aid kit and a fire extinguisher too
Are there any statistics on people actually using rifles carried in their car? People use handguns all the time or rifles and shotguns in the home, but how often does somebody actually use a rifle carried in a car? In most situations a pistol will be the more accessible option, and if you are able to go to the trunk of your car and assemble a rifle it seems that you might be on shaky "self defence" grounds. The only situation where I can imagine it being useful is if there is an active shooter situation and you choose to attempt to intervene, but has this ever actually happened? The closest I can think of is that recent church shooting in Texas, but IIRC the guy there got the rifle from his home.


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