Firing blanks from a real gun
 

I intend to shoot a feature film soon, and I have recently been looking into purchasing guns for props. I was going to use airsoft guns and make all of the muzzle flashes digital, but I recently made the change to one gun-heavy segment on black-and-white super 8 film, so any digital alterations with be quite obvious. I also know that airsoft have very little resale value, as do blank firing guns, while both are initially expensive. I also wouldn't mind having the real firearms around for home protection after the production is over. So, I was considering real firearms and blanks (no live rounds on set, of course).

When using an unblocked barrel in a handgun, how dangerous are blanks, I know they have a bit of projectile and still shoot a pretty heavy bit of gas within the first foot or so. I've been around a .44 shooting blanks, and you could still feel the expulsion of gas several feet away, blank round or not. With smaller calibers, .22 to 32., how safe is it to place to camera in front of the barrel, say 4 feet away or so? I know, I know, "never point it at something you don't intend to kill," but as I mentioned, we will have absolutely no live rounds on set. I won't even shoot the weapons with live rounds before using them on set as to alleviate all possible issues.

So, how safe are they? Mainly for the camera, but also in the case of placing the camera over the shooter's shoulder and showing them shoot another character several feet away?

I would like a bit of background on the scene, so as to see if you couldn't use camera tricks and sound to get the effect. Is this an interior or an exterior scene?

Well, this is a general question about the entire film. Three guns (two handguns and a rifle, the two handguns are real, the rifle is a blank gun), shot a total of... 20 times, all together, some interiors (and yes, we have permission), some exteriors (all private property). Now, I can use camera angles and cutting away for some of them, but if I have the option of firing rounds that will produce an on-set sound and flash, and blanks are intended to be safe, then why not use it?

We;re trained to aim off within 10 meters, and that's using a BFA that plugs the muzzle.

I'm not sure what that means in this context.

I've seen them used in real guns in cowboy action settings and on film sets, and sometimes at pretty close ranges, and it was fine. But I don't want to risk anything, so I'm asking.

Well all I can tell you is there was once an actor by the name of John Eric Hexum. In 1984 he had a promising career and was starring on a television series called Cover-Up. On 10/18/1984 shooting had been delayed and he was bored and frustrated. When informed of yet another delay he took a S&W Model 29 and put it against his head in a form of mock suicide. He should have used his finger. He touched off the blank in the cylinder chamber and the blast from the blank shattered the side of his skull. He died shortly afterwards in the hospital.

Now I'm not a movie gun guy, but I do have some first hand experience with the power of blanks as well. Many years ago, when I was a young and dumb soldier, I and my fellow soldiers used to take off the blank adapters on our M-16's. We would then put a cleaning rod down the barrel and fire off the blank. The rifle wouldn't cycle, but we didn't care.What it did do was launch that cleaning rod out of the barrel like a spear. I actually got the rods to stick into tree trunks. I shudder to think what it did to the barrel's rifling as well.

Blanks are nothing to mess with.

What Nyles was saying that most training has a standard safety distance of ten feet. In reenactments and public displays we usually state 15 feet. For one thing, you NEVER shoot in any direction that can throw crap at someone's eyes closer than fifteen feet. Blanks still hurt. We tend NOT to aim directly at anyone. Usually it's a camera trick and most of the time the gun is fired at a target 'off camera' or if at a person, usually at an angle where the blast is NOT directly pointing at the person.

I've blown holes in shirts and set them on fire with .45 Long Colt blanks so they are dangerous at extreme close range. the biggest danger is to people's eyes at any distance between one foot and thirty feet, so be careful and try not to aim at anyone's head if at all possible. During filming if we have no choice but to do a direct head shot, then you use a dummy blank firing gun with a BLOCKED BARREL (like they did in Goodfellas & Casino when they fired really close to people's heads). These are the theatrical blocked barrel revolvers that blow all of the low charged 'blast' (more like a cap) towards the sides. Nowadays, most modern movies use CGI for any gunfire that is dangerously close to human beings.

Believe me, 99.99% of the time you are never anywhere CLOSE to the person 'being shot'. try to keep it that way. Most films have angles of actors firing 'off screen' .
http://www.imfdb.org/images/5/5c/AP1...FiresFastA.jpg

Usually the cameraman is protected, sometimes with a furny pad or a heavy jacket, always with hearing protection and eye protection (if not blocked by the camera). Anyone not essential to the shot, steps way back away from the action. The Camera is usually protected by something, sometimes a clear plastic shield, etc.

Yes, I've heard that story. I don't believe I'm "messing with them," but trying to use them for their given purpose.

I think you really need to consult with some of the armorers on here before you try this. As others have pointed out, there have been quite a few disasters with blanked firearms in Hollywood.

Also, where are you filming this movie? Remember that blanks are LOUD.

Private property.

Fair enough, but you still should be pretty careful. Check out Bill Davis' web site for some of the info there:

http://propguys.com/weapons/

Also, I believe there are some armories that cater to low-budget/student filmmakers. Instead of using personal weapons, you can actually rent blank-adapted guns and even bring a handler on-set to supervise their use, and then you pay him a fee (I think most of them charge by week). I've seen student films which used real guns, instead of airsoft or commercial blank replicas, so clearly, they're out there. Again, I'm sure MPM or someone else could tell you more about that...

Uh no there hasn't. Remarks like that will put us armorers out of business. The insurance underwriters are convinced that we're killing people everyday on movie sets, which is untrue. We've had TWO fatalities in 100 years. That's 100 years!!!!!! There are way more injuries and fatalities with knife fights, sword fights, bare knuckle fights, stunt falls, car stunts. It would be more likely to hear about a blank firing disaster on an amateur movie or student movie than a professional one. Even then, the news doesn't have a lot of stories about it, because it doesn't often happen. A student filmmaker is more likely to be arrested for brandishing a toy gun than someone getting injured or killed firing blanks, from a historical perspective.

The Insurance companies don't know a thing about guns, and urban myths like that help fan the flames of their prejudice against guns. that's why insurance rates go through the roof (unfairly) for a production company when guns are present on a set.

John Eric Hexum and Brandon Lee?

My point (in my response) was that blanks aren't toys, but I've never heard anything but positive descriptions about movie armorers.

Brandon Lee, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't even shot with a blank. They emptied normal rounds, which is incredibly stupid, to make the "blanks," because they showed them previously in the movie as real rounds being loaded and used the same ones, emptied, as blanks. My facts may be a bit off, however.

I remeber reading that there was a bullet stuck in the barrel from a squib and nobody knew about it. So when the actor fired a blank there was enough energy to send the bullet out of the barrel and into Lee.

OK, OK, chill. Maybe I shouldn't have said "more than a few". But surely, you concede that while the accident rates might be exaggerated by insurance companies, I am right to caution MrGoodBomb (who is planning to do this film without an armorer) that there is a risk? Awareness of the risks is important, after all.

The bullet was part of a dummy cartridge - which was made by taking a real bullet and removing the powder from it. The scene called for the gun to be shown getting loaded with the dummy rounds, before it was later fired using blanks. Somehow, the head was put on too loosely, and when an untrained property assistant (not the armorer, who got sent off-set to save money) dry-fired the gun to uncock it, the bullet came loose from the shell and got lodged in the chamber. Nobody checked the gun before it was loaded with blanks and fired at Lee, and the wad from the blank propelled the bullet from the chamber and into Lee's abdomen.

And that gentlemen, is why you never screw around with guns on set without armourer supervision.

In America, you aren't necessarily obligated to have an armorer on-set unless you have NFA weapons (in countries with stricter gun laws, this is a different story). Propmasters and their assistants handle guns on-set all the time. Or at least, they used to (this is apparently changing).

It's just that in the case of "The Crow", the particular property assistant who handled the gun that killed Lee while the armorer was off-set happened to be very inexperienced.

Thanks. It's been sixteen years since I read that article about Lee's death. I remember thinking that the move set had some real issues and that Lee's death was totally avoidable.

That's just plain stupid.

It's a shame for Brandon Lee. He seemed to have a promising career ahead of him.

First the Legendary "Bruce Lee" died tragically and then a couple decades later so would his son.

Without knowing your personal firearms experience, budget or crew setup and camera package, I would advise you to use blank firing guns. They are expensive, but still much cheaper and safer than real firearms. Just as loud though, so have lots of extra hearing protection on set. You can pick up black foam ear plugs for your actors.

Unless you are going to have a dedicated propmaster/armorer on set to control the use of real weapons, don't use them. I've worked low budget and no budget films for years, along with some bigger budget fare, and for a small crew with no armorer it's much better to have blank guns on set.

Also, the blank ammunition itself is much cheaper and much easier to get than crimped blanks.

If you have an assortment of calibers in real weapons you really do need someone who knows what they are doing loading and preparing the guns for scenes.

With blank fire guns it's easier, as you can purchase all the same caliber as there are only 3 to choose from anyway. 9mmPAK, 8mm, and 380 revolver.

The blank options are just as expensive as what I've got (a .22 derringer and a 7.62 Nagant, which can fire .32 S&W blanks).