Some Guns From My Collection (bandwidth warning)
 

Saw the post your guns thread and thought you might enjoy some pictures of some of the rarer or more interesting guns from my collection of military small arms. First up, handguns.

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This is a Webley & Scott Model 1910 in .38ACP (or .38 High Velocity as it was known in Britain at the time). Webley & Scott of course made the break-action Webley revolvers used by the British Army, but also made a series of quite good automatic pistols. These were unique in that they actually had an enormously strong V-shaped mainspring in the left side of the grip rather than a conventional coil spring.

The Model 1910 was designed in hopes of a military contract, but never got one, and was dropped from production in favor of the .455 calibre Model 1913 which would be adopted by the Royal Navy and the Royal Horse Artillery. This is one of less than 1000 made.


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This is British army issued Garate Old Pattern No.2 Mk.I revolver, made in Spain. Spain has a long history of making (often parent infringing) firearms of various levels of quality. Because of their neutrality in WW1, they were a huge source of substitute standard handguns for the Entente, including these copies of the Smith & Wesson 1884 Frontier Double Action in .455 Webley calibre. They weren't very well-made and overshadowed by the Colt and S&W revolvers purchased in droves, and of course the standard issue Webleys.

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These are a pair of WW2 Finnish service pistols. The top one is a Luger M/23 with a Finnish-made 4 3/4" barrel in 9mm. Originally purchased in 7.65mm Luger calibre and with 3.9" barrels (because of limits on Germans arms manufacture imposed by the Treaty of Versailles), they were rebarelled during the 1941-1944 Continuation War with the Soviets to better match the Lahti L-35 that had replaced them.

The bottom one is a Czech-made CZ-38 in .380 purchased from the Germans by the Finns during the Continuation War. It's a unique design, in that in spite of having an external hammer it's double action only, and strips simply by pressing the catch on the frame and lifting off the slide - it has a captive mainspring and the barrel is hinged to the frame. Handles really poorly, but it's surprisingly accurate.

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This is a French SACM mle. 1935A in 7.65mm Longue. It's basically a modified 1911 updated by Swiss firearms designer Charles Petter - who would go onto design the famed Sig P210 pistol, which has very similar lines to this. It fits the hand like a glove and points naturally, however it fires an underpowered cartridge and has one of the strangest locations for a safety I've seen. As an aside of trivia, thanks to the bureaucratic hiccup this is the only .32 calibre pistol in Canada that can be purchased on a standard handgun liscense.

More handguns!

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This is a Japanese Nambu T-14, made in 1941 by Nagoya arsenal. This one has the "Manchurian" triggerguard introduced later in production to allow it to be fired wearing heavy gloves, which proved necessary for troops deployed, you guessed it, in Manchuria. In spite of looking similar to the Luger, there's no mechanical similarity - if anything, it works along the same broad principles as the Mauser C/96.

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Speaking of the Mauser C/96, here's mine. it's the version known to collectors as a "Prewar Commercial", it was made in 1905, at the beginning of stable production - it actually took them about 10 years to settle on which features they wanted to include in these pistols and start making them in quantity. This one is all-matching and in nice shape, I replaced the worn-out mainspring so I could shoot it and kept the original. These are remarkable pistols, if you ever strip one they're like a Swiss watch on the inside.

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This is a Yugoslavian-issued Browning 1922 in .380. These are actually stretched versions of the Model 1910 pocket pistol with a lengthened slide and frame as requested by the Yugoslavs, between the wars these would be purchased by most of the minor powers in Europe. These were widely used by the Yugoslavian partisans during WW2. The Yugoslavian Brownings come in two models, the standard troopers model and the private purchase officer's model. This is the much rarer officer's model - no one knows exactly how many were made, but many Browning collectors have never even seen one. Mine came with the original holster.

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This is a Colt New Service revolver, made in .455 Webley calibre and issued to British troops in WW1. I've never actually seen a picture that captures the size and bulk of the Colt New Service - they are big, big guns. Not so much in length, but in heft. Although the Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector is a technologically superior gun (a situation which, frankly, was true in the 1870s and never really changed), the Colt was the more popular of the two in British service because of its sheer indestructibility.

Now some long guns.

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I'm sure this needs no introduction - a Winchester M97 Trench Shotgun (officially referred to as an "M97 riot shotgun with heat shield and bayonet adaptor"). This is not a Norinco, but rather a genuine Winchester-made US Army trench gun. This is actually a WWII production gun, with the takedown frame and parkerised heat shield. It's definately used, but in great mechanical shape and with all the markings intact. Looks absolutely wicked with a 16" M1917 bayonet on the end of it.

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This is a Canadian Ross Mk.III rifle, as used by CEF troops during the first half of WWI. The Ross introduced by Canada after the Boer War, during which the British had refused to supply us with enough of the new Lee-Enfields and we decided to go our own way. Unfortunately, the Ross was much better suited to use as a target rifle and proved a disaster in service, proving finnicky and unreliable in the trenches using wartime ammo. It was replaced in service with the Lee-Enfield and relegated to use in training and by snipers, who loved it for its reknowned accuracy.

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Speaking of which, this is a Boer War era Lee-Enfield Mk.I*, this one made by Birmingham Small Arms in 1896. This is actually one of about 1000 purchased by Canada before the Brits refused to sell us more, although given that its in nearly mint condition its unlikely that it actually went to South Africa. Also pictured is the extremely hard to find P88 bayonet, complete with original scabbard.

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This a French Lebel mle 1886/93, made by St. Etienne in 1893 and rearsenalled by Chattelerault in 1934, so it was used by French troops in both world wars. The Lebel was the first modern rifle, ring a small-caliber smokeless powder cartridge, although it used an 8-round tube magazine under the barrel which necessitated loading it one round at a time. It provoked an arms race when it was introduced, so that by the turn of the century every major and most minor powers had something similar.

Wow! That is one HELL of an impressive collection! An actual WWII-era Winchester?

wow, a trench gun...that's impressive

Thanks guys. The Trench Gun is a recent addition, got it last month.

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This is one of my favorites, a Lee-Enfield Royal Irish Constabulary carbine, one of about 1100 converted from Lee-Metford carbines in 1904 (the other 9000 done from Lee-Enfield cavalry carbines). These were used by the Royal Irish Constabulary during the Irish War of Independence from 1919-1921. This photo is gonig to be appearing in an article by Paul Scarlata in an upcoming issue of Shotgun News. Again, with the hard to find P88 bayonet.

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This is another recent addition, a 1944 dated British No.36 Mk.I Mills Bomb - no fuze or filler, of course, but everything else is there and original. The green band and red Xs indicate are the period British indicator for high explosive - this is a real fragmentation grenade, not a trainer. Not many of these survived the war, for obvious reasons.

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Here's a pair of Austrian rifles, both of which use straight pull bolts. The top rifle is a Mannlicher M95/31, built by Steyr. These were the main Austro-Hungarian rifle of WW1. This one ended up in Austrian hands after the Habsburg empire was dissolved, and was converted to the more-powerful 8 x 56mm cartridge in 1931.

The bottom one is a Mannlicher M88/95. The M88 was the previous model of Mannlicher, using a much weaker (but smoother) bolt design. This one is extremely rare in that it's been upgraded with M95 pattern sights - Paul Scarlata's book on Mannlichers (currently the definitive source) only includes one illustration and no photos. This one is still in the original 8 x 50mm chambering.

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This is a Finnish Mosin-Nagant M/24 Civil Guard Rifle (nicknamed the "Lotta Svaard" after the women's auxiliaries who raised funds for them). Finnish Mosin-Nagants are actually built on rifles captured from the Russians and improved into entirely new models. The M/24 was built exclusively for the Civil Guard, who are best compared to a non government run version of the US National Guard. This one was issued in the Helsinki district, and used on the front lines when the Guard was called up during the 1939-1940 Winter War. Interestingly, unlike the vast majority, this has no regular army markings from when the Civil Guard was disbanded in 1945 in accordance with the peace treaty with the Soviets - suggesting it's owner stuck it in a barn, waiting for another Soviet invasion.

Great Collection! I love rare examples of classic firearms.

You've already seen most of my guns, since I photograph them for the example pages on many of the guns pages. Perhaps in the future I can make a photo request of you. If you can get a completely straight side shot from a distance of guns that you select, on a white background, I can use it for an IMFDB photo (cleaned up, shadows removed).

I used to do a lot of retouching work to my guns photos until I got that transparent tub I now put all the guns on. The light behind them on a white background eliminates the shadows.

Awesome guns! got any more?

I have lots of other guns. I'm glad to do photo requests if I'm able, but I'm getting ready for my deployment to Afghanistan at the moment so free time is a little short.

Here's the breakdown:

British & Commonwealth:
Lee-Enfield Mk.I* - 1896 BSA (Canadian Issue)
Lee-Enfield Royal Irish Constabulary Carbine - 1904 Enfield
SMLE Mk.III* - 1917 SSA (Canadian issue)
Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III - 1940 BSA (New Zealand Issue)
Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III* - 1942 Ishapore (Indian Issue)
Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III* - 1942 Lithgow (Australian Issue)
Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I - 1944 Maltby
Lee-Enfield No.5 Mk.I - 1945 Fazakerly
Enfield P'14 - 1916 Remington (Canadian Issue)
Ross Mk.III - 1916 (Canadian Issue)
Webley & Scott Model 1910 automatic
Colt .455 New Service
Smith & Wesson .455 Mk.II Hand Ejector
Garate OP No.2 Mk.I
Webley Mk.VI - 1916
Enfield No.2 Mk.I - 1931 Enfield
Enfield No.2 Mk.I* - 1941 Enfield
Smith & Wesson Pre-Victory - 1942 (Canadian Issue)
Browning Hi Power - 1944 Inglis
No.36 Mk.I Mills Bomb - 1944 WDC (Inert)

Finland:
Mosin-Nagant M/91 P-27 - 1927 AV-1
Mosin-Nagant M/24 Civil Guard Rifle - 1924 Bohler-Stahl
Mosin-Nagant M/27 - 1933 Tikka
Mosin-Nagant M/39 - 1943 Sako
Luger M/23 9mm - 1924 DWM
CZ-38 - 1939 CZ

Soviet Union & Communist:
Mosin-Nagant M91/30 - 1942 Ishevsk
Mosin-Nagant M44 - 1954 Radom
Tokarev SVT-40 - 1941 Ishevsk
Simonon SKS - 1954 Tula
Nagant M1895: 1938 Tula
Tokarev TT-33: Undated Chinese

France:
Lebel M1886 - 1893 Tulle
Berthier M1892 - 1894 St Etienne
Berthier M1907/15 - 1917 St. Etienne
MAS-36 - 1946 St. Etienne
SACM M1935A - 1946

Germany:
Gewehr 88 Commission Rifle - 1890 Amberg
Mauser Kar 98K - 1943 Gustloffwerke
Mauser C/96 - 1905
Walther P.38 - 1943 Mauser
Radom P.35(P) - 1942

US:
M1 Garand - 1942 Springfield
M1 Carbine - 1943 Saginaw
M1911A1 - 1942 Colt
Winchester M97 Trench Shotgun - WW2

Japan:
Arisaka T-99 - 33rd series Toyo Kogyo
Nambu T-14 - 1941 Nagoya


Austria:
Mannlicher M.88/95
Mannlicher M.95/31
Steyr 1911 - 1912

Misc:
Swedish Mauser M/38 - 1942 Husqvarna
Swedish Ljungmann AG42B - 1943 Carl Gustav
Italian Carcano M91/41 - 1943 FAT
English Westley-Richards 12 Gauge Double-Barrel SXS
Yugoslavian Officer-issue Browning 1922

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Couple of new ones I picked up at a gunshow in Brandon.

Bottom is a Japanese Arisaka T-38, made by Kokura. Has all the early features, but is missing the dust cover on the bolt and has a ground mum - judging from that and the lack of series markings, it was made in the early 30s at the latest.

Top is a German Gewehr 88/05, made in 1890 by Amberg. This was one of the ones supplied to the Turks in 1914 when they entered World War One - has the Turkish crescent on several small parts and the rear sight is marked in arabic. Before it left German service, it was converted to load with Mauser-style stripper clips instead of the original Mannlicher enbloc clips.

Not pictured is a WW2 British Webley .38 Mk.IV, used as a substitute standard for the Enfield No.2 Mk.I - which was actually a knock-off of the Webley (the British War Department was successfully sued for copyright infringement over it). When the war broke out the Brits needed all the revolvers they could get and bought the Webley in large numbers. Webley, understandably upset, nevertheless agreed to sell it - marking the military contract ones "War Finish" so it wouldn't be thought their "rough" (still better than the Enfields) finish was typical of Webley's product. I bought this at the same time as the others, but I'm still waiting for the paperwork to go through on it.

Antiuqes: Gayness.
Get yaself a MP5K for god sakes and actually shoot some people.

Addressing them in order:
"Antiques". Some of the best firearms are oldies. "Yourself". AN MP5K, not a.

And antiques are not "Gayness", their designs influenced that MP5K you speak of. Respect your elders, they are the future as well as the past.

(1.) Nyles is from Canada. Canada does not allow machine guns for civilians anymore. Bill C-51, passed in 1977, outlawed them for anyone who didn't have a permit to buy them before that date. So unless Nyles is one of those lucky souls, it's not possible for him to do so.
(2.) Your posts make you sound like some immature kid who has never touched a real gun in his life. Wise up.

I'd bet good money I've shot more automatic weapons than you've ever seen outside of a computer game, and even if I could legally own them my collection would look pretty much the same as it does right now. I appreciate history and character in a gun alot more than I care about how many rounds it can fire.

And chances are that in the next year I am going to have to "actually shoot some people". The thought doesn't appeal to me. War's not a game, I know plenty of guys who've pulled the trigger and none of them are happy about it. What's more, I've known guys didn't come back, or didn't come back whole. I do this because I believe in it, not because it's cool, or fun. It's not.

Oh, and I've got to give you credit MT2008. You know our laws better than most of the people I sell guns to.

Nyles, no need to take this loser too seriously. He seems to be mostly trolling, and is well on his way to being ghosted (read: banned).

As far as my knowledge of your country's gun laws, don't give me TOO much credit. I remembered reading Canada had a machine gun ban, but I had to Google the topic to get the specific bill. :D

I know, but two things really piss me off: gun guys acting like idiots in public and convincing people that gun owners really are dangerous nuts, and trivialising the war.

Well, credit anyways. You'd be amazed at how many people see the R-15 we have to work and ask me if its a machine gun.

Some more "gay antiques"... I've also started picturing the handguns with appropriate original rounds from my cartridge collection.

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I'm sure you don't need me to identify this for you. It's a Colt M1911A1, made by Colt in 1943, one of a few that were mistakenly serial numbered in the range assigned to Remington Rand. It's pictured with a 1918-vintage two-tone magazine it somehow ended up paired with, and a 1942-dated British military .45ACP round.

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Also likely needing no explanation, this is a Canadian Inglis Hi Power (No.2 Mk.I), 1st series, made in 1944. I'm issued one just like it at work. You can recognise an Inglis by the humped rear sight. It's pictured with a 1943 dated Canadian made 9mm cartridge.

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This is a German-issued Radom pistol, made in Poland under German occupation. The Poles called it the wz.35, the Germans P.35(P), which I think is more correct for a German issued gun. Great guns, actually - reliable, accurate, and somewhat unique. Have a decocking lever, but a single action only trigger - works pretty well. This one was made about 1942, when the finish was degrading but none of the mechanics had been changed. It's pictured with a German DWM 9mm cartridge made in the 30s.

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This is an Austrian-made Steyr 1911 pistol, made in 1912 as part of a contract for the Chilean army. These are neat pistols - top loaders with a fixed magazine, firing a 9 x 23mm cartridge slightly more powerful than the 9mm Luger. They have somewhat odd ergonomics, but they're surprisingly accurate and reliable. This one is pictured with a full stripper clip of 1916 dated Austrian ammo.

I think those tutone mags are cool. They just dipped them in blueing at the factory so the top of the mag is a different color. I have a few of those.

Actually, the reason the top of the mag was left in the white was that the heat treating process they used to stiffen the mag lips destroyed bluing. Ironically this one doesn't actually function too well with the gun - the follower is worn just enough that it won't trip the slide lock. When I shoot it I just use a plain parked mag.

Man, that's a beautiful collection.

A friend of mine had two prized items in his at one time extensive collection, I believe they were a Luger P08 and a "Broomhandle" Mauser (C96? I'm not too up on antique firearms but I remember his descriptions of them).

When they changed the UK Firearms law in 1996 to ban all pistols from private ownership, he had to hand them - and all the other pistols, including his cherished 1911 - in to the police to be destroyed. They wouldn't even pay compensation.

He said it was one of the saddest things he's ever had to do. Looking at some of yours, I can understand why. :(

Very sad, but it's nice to know some corners of the world allow such collector's items to survive. Thanks for showing us these.

Thanks DamageW - it is really sad what happened in the Britain. Without getting too much into the subvariants, C/96 is broadly correct and accepted among collectors for all the models.

Really? I remember hearing that the government did pay compensation to former pistol owners, but that they didn't FULLY compensate many of them for the actual value of their guns. On the SIG Forum, we had a guy from the U.K. who said he received £150 for his SIG P228, which he had bought for £600.

Also, I understand that there was also the option of having them deactivated and sent to one of the Proof Houses to be certified as meeting the deactivation standards?

I'll ask him next time I see him. All I know (he told me this a long time ago) was that there was an amnesty, and all guns had to be handed into to a designated police station before a deadline. As (most of) his pistols were registered he had little choice but to hand them in, and he made no mention of getting anything back for them, quite the opposite, in fact.

He did comment that the firearms officer collecting the weapons (for destruction, he said) was most impressed by some of the items my mate was returning, I think the copper was as unhappy with having to take the things in as my friend was in parting with them.

In any case, it's a simple fact that it is pretty much impossible to legally fire a standard pistol in this country. Black powder is still allowed, and I know you can get extended pistols with fixed stocks which are long enough to qualify as a carbine, but that's about as close as you can get.

Personally, if I were a British gun owner, I would have just had my weapon deactivated if the option existed (and until recently, deactivated guns used to be easy to buy). I mean, it sucks to not be able to fire a gun, but having a non-firing weapon to at least play around with is better than having no gun whatsoever.

BTW, those new anti-"replica" laws are the worst. When I was in the U.K. (in 2007), I was still able to own an airsoft gun. Now I understand you can't have those unless it's not colored black. I don't think I'll ever study there again...and I was actually planning on getting my Master's there at one point.

OK, bit more information I managed to get out of my mate during a brief chat today. He said that of all the weapons he handed in, his WW1 Colt 1911 in Royal Navy .455 calibre was the one he was the saddest to part with. One of his colleagues who loved big guns had a Smith and Wesson Model 29 ("...well, do ya?") that also went for the chop.

My mate's wife had a steel frame German-made PPK which the collecting officer got all over-excited about and started showing all his mates, ("look, look, it's James Bond's gun, the real one with the steel frame!") which didn't make things any easier for her...! :rolleyes:

Yes, you could get them deactivated although I understand the new deactivation standard is nothing short of brutal, and involves doing hideous damage to the gun as they drill holes in it and stuff bits of metal down it. Most collectors would rather part with their prized possession than suffer that indignity.

You're absolutely right, though, and my apologies, he did get some compensation, he had to get his weapons approximately valued at an arms dealer (so there was a fair amount of debate about what some of his custom or rare items were worth), after which the government would pay between 1/2 and 2/3 of the value as they saw fit. Whoopty-do, as they say.

If you had an antique firearm over a certain age, you were allowed to keep it as a collectible, but by keep it that actually means it is stored in a vault at Bisley, and you have to apply in writing in advance if you want to go and visit your own prize possession. The gun can never leave the site, ever.

Incidentally, he told me with some gloomy relish about the UK olympic shooting team, which currently has to travel to Switzerland to practice their art, which probably explains why we've gone from frequent medal winners to hardly anything in the last few games. Apparently they're relaxing the laws in London for the 2012 games, nothing like reinventing the rules when there's money to be made. Ah well.

As for airsofts and replicas, the laws are confusing. Airsofts were deemed exempt from the new anti-replica laws thanks to some bloke from our anti-terrorist agencies giving them the ok, however all such items still have to be registered and you have to be a member of a "skirmish" club (bit like paint-balling) and take part regularly in order to keep your guns or buy new ones. As you say, lesser airsofts can be bought if you're over 18 providing they're painted in hideous dayglo colours. Anything that's RIF - "realistic imitation firearm" is not allowed.

I got rid of most of my really old airsofts when I had to move house at short notice recently, but there's no way in hell I'm parting with my 8mm blank-firing Glock 17 and Beretta 92F. I believe there's a saying involving "...my cold, dead hand." :mad: