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new guy old guns
Hi there.
New here and I'd like to share some pics I took last week at the Military museum here in Istanbul. Some unusual and some familiar looking. I'm not that good at identifying firearms and the museum did not use proper descriptions so your help and knowledge is appreciated. Thank you. The museum carries many different makes and models of lever action rifles. Here's one of them. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0617.jpg Apparently this one was designed to fire grippling hooks - missing the hook - http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0658.jpg Here's an unusual one: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0659.jpg I'd like to see how you holster this one: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0605.jpg That's it for now but there is a lot more... |
The first image looks like a Winchester 1866 "Yellow Boy", but it has no magazine tube... It appears like it has a water-cooling jacket over the barrel, like a belt-fed water-cooled machine gun. Maybe this was an early attempt to solve handling the hot barrel without a forend... Also, looks like a Mannlicher-Shoener rifle in the background, can't ID the one to the right.
That pistol with the multiple barrels is said to be French designed, but it has a similair design to the original John Browning (not his more famous son), who invented the Harmonica rifle, which worked on a similar principle. |
Thank you sir.
I'm afraid I don't have pics of the other two rifles but I'm almost certain they are either German or Russian. Here's some more: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0621.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0670.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0618.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0603.jpg |
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-EDIT, didn't see that GM45 already nailed it down.... |
Here's an interesting one from Belgium.
It's a 19th century magazine fed Belgian pistol: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...elgiansemi.jpg A Martin? http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0672.jpg Custom made Ottoman pistol http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0667.jpg Another Ottoman (?) pistol http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0666.jpg The museum has a few thousand firearms from different centuries... So I think I will be contributing for awhile... |
how does that mag fed pistol cycle?
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Well..That's the problem with this museum. So many guns and almost no descriptions. I'm afraid I have no idea but I also would like to know how it cycles.
Perhaps the operator of the weapon cycles it manually by pushing the mag downwards or upwards. Would that be possible? |
either way, excellent pics.
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Thank you Sir.
Here's a German semi and I assume its mag is missing: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0607.jpg But I'll take these instead: (most sinister looking handgun ever) http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0620.jpg This one is a beauty: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0599.jpg When it comes to German weapons of late 19th century and early 20th century, Turkey is a gold mine. Especially 1896's, P08's and their variants with accessories can be found quite easily. |
I think the mag tube of the Winchester is likely inside the jacket (incidentally the 1866 did have a wood forend). The Ottoman Army actually used the Winchester 1866 Musket to good effect at the Battle of Plevna in 1877. They ultimately lost, but held for months against a Russian force 3 times their size.
The Bergmann actually isn't necessarily missing the mag, it loads by inserting a stripper clip of ammo into a trapdoor in the side, as I recall the bottom is supposed to be open. |
Thank you for the info Nyles.
This one was the only Bergmann in the museum. Another interesting fact is that The Bergmann was manufactured in 1896 just like the Mauser. Perhaps the Mauser was more reliable than the Bergmann and it became the prefered sidearm of mostly German and Ottoman officers. Last pic for now.. More to come soon... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0598.jpg |
Well, I think the main factor was power. The biggest round the Bergmann was available in was the 6.5mm Bergmann, which pushed a 76 grain bullet at 710 FPS. 7.63mm Mauser pushes an 85 grain at 1410 FPS.
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Those are some excellent pictures, and stuff I've never seen before (Bergman and Mauser notwithstanding).
Thanks for taking these and putting them up. |
You are welcome.
Here's a picture of the museum itself. Harbiye Askeri Muzesi. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...urk/museum.jpg Building used to be a military school and it still belongs to the Turkish armed forces. It is also being operated by TAF. Awful, useless website. I won't bother sharing the link here. Note the barrel of the mighty "rail gun" at the bottom. I have some pics of it. First floor is devoted to pre WW1 era. And that goes all the way back to the 10th century if I'm not mistaken. And no, not only firearms but all sorts of weapons are on display. Took me 2 visits to cover most of the first floor. I'm hoping to cover the rest of the museum in the following weeks. Since this is a firearm forum I won't be bothering you folks with pictures of blades and such. Some revolvers: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0661.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0662.jpg This collection of revolvers belonged to some militia leader from early 20th century and apparently he carried all or most of them on his person. ( I might be wrong) http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0668.jpg |
The older guns were very nice looking.
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Revolvers, continued:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0660.jpg Too fancy: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0615.jpg This one would make a nice Christmas present: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0611.jpg Can't tell if these are Webley's http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0597.jpg |
ersoz wins the internet
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For me going to a museum to see all these guns was like going to the theater to see a decent movie. It felt great. I used to live in So Cal near Los Angeles. Traveled through US couple times. And my only regret has been never having the chance to visit the Smithsonian. Someday perhaps. More revolvers? Why not: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0673.jpg WEBLEY - GREEN? http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0622.jpg Some Belgian revolvers http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0596.jpg |
Those are some tall looking hammers.
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Loved this one.
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Thanks for the pictures, that's some really cool/obscure stuff.
(If you're uploading the pictures anyway, could you perhaps share the link to the bladed stuff? Thanks.) |
The other ones looked like that French pin-fire pistol.
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I will go back to the museum to take more pictures. Especially of the medieval weapons. I can gladly share the link to those pics. Multi barreled pistols: I really like the double barrel setup. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...ms/pocket1.jpg Can you tell me how this one cycles?: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0606.jpg Nice collection here: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0656.jpg |
Some pocket pistols:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0614.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0613.jpg This one is German. Can you tell me who the manufacturer is? Can't read what it says on the barrel. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0610.jpg And I forgot to add this S&W revolver in my previous post. Sorry about that: Lovely engravings on it. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0602.jpg |
Great PICS! I believe many of those weapons have pages here on IMFDB. Now I just have to check to see how many there are. :D But you're right. The Turkish museum has piss poor 'descriptions' of the various weapons. Heck we probably provide more detailed information on most of those weapons (i.e. the IMFDB membership). Great pics! Keep them coming! :D
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Thank you.
Some rifles: Note the barrel of the one to the right: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0601.jpg Same rifles: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0600.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0665.jpg This one is made by Ottomans in the 15th or early 16th Century. It is quite impressive: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0664.jpg |
The creativity of old guns just blows me away.
Oh awful puns. |
I have to go back to the museum to take pics o medieval weapons and early firearms. Hopefully next week.
Here's something I'd like for Christmas. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0628.jpg Some gunsmith's tools: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0626.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0625.jpg |
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That is true.
I remember stories about WW1 Martinis' and Mausers' foregrips heating up so bad, soldiers would have to cover them in dirt just to cool them off a little bit. And that is after 30-40 shots fired. |
Because a water jacket on a rifle looks fucking awesome.
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I'm not feeling well so I had to postpone my second visit to the museum. My apologies.
Until then, here's some more fancy gun pictures from the museum's first floor. I understand most of these firearms were gifts to statesmen and major military figures. Enjoy: This was a gift from Nikolai Podgorny to Turkish Army Chief of Staff in the sixties. It is obviously a Soviet firearm. I seriously need help with this one. No idea what it is: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...ms/imfdb01.jpg This one looks familiar: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0675.jpg A gold plated Astra: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0612.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0676.jpg |
It's a Russian Vostok Margolin MT .22 target pistol. The one below it is a Croatian PHP.
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I thought it looked familiar. It's Princess Leia's pistol from Star Wars.
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The gold thing is a POF (Pakistani Ordnance Factory) SMG-PK. It appears they sell them in gold, but maybe the scrollwork is custom?
I'm not a fan of scrollwork like that, but the pattern on the Astra looks really good. |
How to make a H&K gun more hard to obtain: Gold Plate it.
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More pics.
A custom made pistol. Started out in Istanbul TR, completed in Poland. It's probably 7.65mm: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0623.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...s/IMG_0674.jpg |
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