Including airsoft guns?
 

I have a quick question...should IMFDB include separate entries on gun pages for airsoft guns being used as props in movies/TV? The reason I ask this question is because I've noticed that there seems to be increasing usage of airsoft weapons in non-firing scenes. If you want an example, take the Classic Army M15A4 airsoft rifles, which have been used in a huge number of recent movies/TV series ("The Hurt Locker", "Generation Kill", "28 Weeks Later", "Castle", etc.). I'm thinking I should add an entry for the Classic Army rifles on the M16 page. I also just saw an episode of "Human Target" where Real Sword airsoft replicas of the Norinco Type 56 were used in some non-firing scenes.

On the one hand, I think this makes some sense because we've already been doing this, to some degree (the MGC M16 replicas, which have been used by armorers and propmasters for decades, already have their own separate entry on the M16 page). On the other hand, I fear that it might things a bit more confusing. There is already a popular misconception that most (or all) guns used in movies are airsoft, which I used to see circulated on airsoft message boards. We need to make sure that we're certain a non-firing weapon is airsoft, and also that we provide good evidence distinguishing the replica from the real (firing) weapon. Usually, you can tell because the airsoft weapon is different from the firing weapon in some way (i.e. in "Human Target" where Norinco Type 84s replace the airsoft Type 56s in firing scenes). But sometimes, it's not so obvious - the Classic Army airsoft ARs have white markings on the receivers, but so do some real ARs.

What do y'all think?

we could just add them in with the non guns...?

The "Non Guns" page is not intended for any and all replica weapons in movies. It refers to a specific brand of prop weapons that are manufactured by Independent Studio Services, and which "fire" small charges that simulate gunfire. That's why "Non Guns" is in quotes - to emphasize that it's a brand name as opposed to a category of prop. I remember somebody once tried to add the MGC M16s to that page, and I reverted the change.

I suppose it might be worth thinking about creating a page for all airsoft weapons to be included together. However, I would think that including the airsoft versions on the gun page would allow users to compare the airsoft guns to the real weapons and recognize the differences. But I am open to suggestions.

I say go for it, but how do you differentiate the airsoft versions from the real thing?

do it. lets give them their own pageusually if you look at the reciever you can see the markings of an airsoft manufacturer, they dont do a good job of covering it up. look at the Hurt Locker page

It's not always easy. But a big hint is when the weapons change in some way between firing and non-firing scenes. I've seen movies and TV shows where U.S. soldiers (or other characters) carry M16A2s in non-firing scenes, but then as soon as the M16s get fired, they magically transform into other variants (such as M16A1s with A2 hand guards). When I see something like that, I think it's likely I'm looking at airsoft weapons in the non-firing scenes. Why else would the weapon's appearance change, otherwise?

Or, as Zulu pointed out, sometimes, there are other visual differences. Classic Army airsoft ARs all have white-painted receiver markings which most real ARs don't have. In "The Hurt Locker", the Classic Army markings are partially covered, but it looks like they used black magic marker or something, so they're still visible. Also, as I mentioned on the page, the Classic Army M4s used in "The Hurt Locker" are older versions that have 4-position collapsible stocks. All of the real M4s used in the movie seem to have 6-position stocks (which look different).

Point is, it's going to vary from movie to movie, but the rule of thumb is that whenever you see a change in the weapon's appearance between firing and non-firing scenes, you have good reason to suspect you've uncovered the use of an airsoft weapon or some other replica.

I think we should put the airsoft into the gun pages of what they are emulating. Like the M16 Airsofts should be in the M16 page, etc.

What about both? Having an airsoft page and then having each individual airsoft model on the page for the firearm it emulates. And would it be a good idea to do this with the non-guns and other replicas as well?

Unlike Non guns, Airsofts are harder to spot unless they show shots of them up close and you could see the brand name logos on the receivers

Do you mean that we should have a separate page in order to help readers distinguish between airsoft and real guns? That sounds like a good idea.

The problem is that most Airsoft are so real looking that it is next to impossible to tell at a side glance that it is an Airsoft rifle or not. You could hold up an M4 and an Airsoft M4 side to side and could not tell the difference.

Make sure also that there is a precedent that the assumption is that the firearm is real and is NOT airsoft unless proven otherwise.

I'm really starting to hate airsoft...I cant research any guns online anymore without running into page after page of airsoft crap. When you go to reviews of products you have people talking about these products like they are the real thing and it take three of four paragraph before you realize they are talking about a toy. I look for a acessories for my firearms and i have to check and double check to make sure they are for real guns. But as far as movies go i believe if you can prove its a airsoft then mention it in the discription like i did in the Faster page but i see no need for their own page. Just my two cents.

That makes two of us, that is one thing that I would not miss if they banned it.

Hey hey, Airsoft was what made me interested in real guns in the first place and I've made many fans playing with others

Saying that you don't like them and want them banned because of the internet and you can't seem to find anything on the fact that they clog the searches is a bit harsh and short sighted. There are those in the government trying to ban airsoft in the US as a stepping stone on the path to banning guns because they see the ease of access to Airsoft and the realism of them a threat.

If paintball became just as realistic as Airsoft, you would want them banned as well if they made more paintball guns look like M16s and give the same amount of customization to them, you'd be just as annoyed.

And maybe because you keep running into Airsoft through internet searches is because you weren't specific enough. When I type in AR-15 on google, I don't get a ton of hits of Airsoft websites, I get gun websites. If I type in EoTech sight or ACOG, I get the real deal and not Airsoft pages about them,

I don't think he meant to be taken so literally.

Can I at least add the Classic Army airsoft rifles to the M16 page? Those look at least somewhat distinctive (because of the receiver markings), and it looks like those are becoming armorers' favorite replicas ARs in non-firing scenes these days.

That's what I've been suggesting.

You are not taking into account the idiots who will see that and think it is OK to start adding pages for every airsoft gun

I forgot about that. Maybe we should make just one seperate page that talks about Airsoft and makes mention and then show several images of different airsoft rifles.

That sounds like a somewhat good idea

That is a good point, but we've already said on IMFDB that we don't want people to add pages/entries for guns that don't appear in any media. Seems like the same rule would apply. Of course, I have no problem with people pointing out on the movie/TV pages that particular weapons are airsoft (provided they have good evidence to prove it).

Also, the thing about the CA airsoft rifles is that they are distinctive from the real ARs because of their white receiver markings, so I think we could maybe make an exception for them.

I also agree with that.