Micro Uzi/Uzi Pistol
 

Right now the official policy of IMFDB is to label all Micro Uzis and Uzi Pistols as just "Micro Uzi". This goes against the spirit and intent of the site and the principles of truth and accuracy. I would like to be given the go ahead to go through the site and attempt to determine which appearances are genuine Micro Uzis and which ones are Uzi Pistols converted to full auto.

As far as I know, if it has a compensator and a hinge on the back for a stock, it's a Micro Uzi. If it has neither, it's a converted Uzi Pistol. If it has just the hinge, it's a converted Uzi Pistol with a folding stock installed. If I'm wrong, I welcome any corrections.

An additional note: The Uzi Pistol was introduced in 1984, the Micro Uzi in 1986. Any appearance before 1986 is 100% for sure an Uzi Pistol.

On some screencaps you may not be able to tell. Why complicate? I don't know anything about Micro Uzi's, but if the folding stock can be added, so can a compensator.

If you can't tell, then it would be safer to assume Uzi Pistol over Micro Uzi. The compensator is integral to the barrel, so the entire barrel would have to be swapped out. And if one can tell, then one should properly identify. Anything that has no stock and no compensator is an Uzi Pistol. There are even some photographs here on the site that are labeled "Micro Uzi" when you can clearly see "Uzi Pistol" stamped into the receiver.

Yes and what do they say in front of that "Micro".

Also I don't get what you mean by the compensator being integral to the barrel. Compensators are usually added to the front of the barrel. If you're talking about barrel porting. That's not a compensator.

Uzi Pistol
http://i.imgur.com/hOr9Y.gif

Micro Uzi
http://i.imgur.com/zWsjH.jpg

Note the differences in length from the front of the receiver to the end of the muzzle.

You said this site. "Micro" Uzi Pistol
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/1/1f/MicroUziPistol.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/2/22/M...istolStock.jpg
The one you show above with the bent trigger guard, that's barrel porting

What is the stamping on the bottom one behind the folded stock? It looks like that one might not even be of Israeli origin. Also why is "Micro" not as prominently stamped in there? I didn't notice it before because of how faint it is.

Also I just noticed that the Uzi Pistol has a different shaped grip.

I think Action Arms or Vector Arms.

The faint Micro markings, not sure. Maybe it was added later, but not why it would be.

Here's something interesting.

Official Israeli manufactured Micro Uzi from IMI.
http://i.imgur.com/zWsjH.jpg

"Micro Uzi Pistol" of unknown origin.
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/2/22/M...istolStock.jpg

Notice where the folding stock hinge is attached to the receiver. The first one is very clean. The second one is very rough, as if the stock had been crudely welded on as an afterthought or modification.

Both of these guns (they are from the inventory of MPM2008's company, and were photographed by him) are civilian Uzi Pistols (imported by Action Arms) that were converted to full-auto (and they're also converted to blank-fire, since they're intended for movie use). The "A" for auto was stamped in after the auto sear was added, and so was the "Micro" printed next to "Uzi Pistol". I have no idea who did the conversion work on either of these guns, but I believe most of the full-auto Uzi Pistols in prop houses' inventories were modified by LaFrance Specialties in the 1980s. You'd have to ask MPM in order to be sure who modified these particular weapons.

The reason we call all of these guns "Micro Uzis" and not "Uzi Pistols" is because there are almost no genuine "Micro Uzis" in Hollywood. Actually, make that Uzis, period. Almost any time you've seen an Uzi variant in a movie or TV show filmed outside of Israel (whether full-size, Mini, or Micro), you are looking at a civilian variant that has been converted to full-auto. So my point is, if you were to try and distinguish between the "Micro Uzis" and "Uzi Pistols", you might as well just call all of them Uzi Pistols.

Don't we have rules for similar situations for other guns that default to the exact opposite conclusion? Assuming HK91 over G3 is the only one I can think of specifically off the top of my head.

And now that we know this, we can know with almost complete certainty that you can tell a Micro Uzi from an Uzi Pistol by the muzzle. Also for video games and animation there's no reason to assume Micro Uzi. If it's drawn/rendered as an Uzi Pistol, it's an Uzi Pistol.

Good point. As far as the HK91/G3 distinction goes, I would consider the level of conversion before choosing one over the other (i.e. if it's an HK91 was a full-auto trigger pack inside, but no external modifications to resemble a G3, it's fair to call it an HK91). Likewise, when we see those HK94s that have been only partially converted to MP5 specification (full-auto and chopped barrel, but no other mods), we call them something like "HK94 (mocked up as MP5)".

It sounds to me as though what you are proposing (to be analogous) is that if you see a full-auto Uzi Pistol that lacks the side-folding stock, it would be labeled "Uzi Pistol" and not "Micro Uzi". Or maybe "Uzi Pistol (mocked up as Micro Uzi)".

Yeah, I should think so. Or at least, that is what I have understood. I would think the mil-spec Micro Uzi needs a compensated barrel for control during automatic fire. I would guess that a civilian Uzi Pistol could be modified to take a Micro Uzi barrel, but MPM's guns don't have such barrels because they don't need them - they have been modified to fire only blanks, which don't have much recoil. (This is also why many of the full-auto Uzi Pistols in Hollywood are also lacking stocks.)

They're not really "mocked up" if they're just converted to automatic fire. An M16A2 converted to full auto is not mocked up as an M16A3. Compare to HK94's with chopped down barrels or M2HB's dressed up as DShK's. "Micro Uzi (converted to full auto)" or something similar would be appropriate though. An Uzi Pistol modified with a folding stock could be considered mocked up as a Micro Uzi.

Also, I almost forgot to mention that I wrote a note about this on the Micro Uzi section of the Uzi page. Here's what I wrote:

It was the best I could do to clear up the confusion. Also, I stand by what I said in this paragraph: As best I know, it was only Action Arms who called their civilian Micro Uzis "Uzi Pistols". If you were to find semi-auto Micro Uzis in other countries, they might still be called "Micro Uzi", for all I know.

You'll always be able to find exceptions to the rule, but in the case of the M16A2, we dealt with the issue by explaining that "M16A2s" in Hollywood are almost always A2 uppers on A1 lowers. Sometimes, it's just a matter of convenience, because we have to deal with the fact that movie guns are frequently different from mil-spec weapons.

I do think that maybe saying "Uzi Pistol (converted to full-auto)" would work, assuming we want to use Action Arms' name for them.

Wikipedia says the Uzi Pistol predates the Micro Uzi by 2 years. It's not a civilian version of the Micro Uzi, the Micro Uzi is a military/LE version of the Uzi Pistol.

But my point is, Action Arms called them Uzi Pistols, but they were just the importer. IMI may have called the semi-auto version Micro Uzi.

That's an iffy hypothesis. They already made the semiauto Uzi Pistol before the Micro Uzi existed. Why would they make an additional semiautomatic version that's exactly the same except for the name? Even on the picture of the one we have, it's stamped "Uzi Pistol". The "micro" is stamped differently, I can't explain that. I guess we'll wait for MPM to chime in if he feels so inclined.

I know that the semi-auto version existed before the full-auto version, but what I am saying is that IMI might have called them BOTH Micro Uzi. "Uzi Pistol" might just be the term Action Arms used. Also, the stamping "Uzi Pistol" would have been added by AA.

Anyway, regarding the issue in general, if you want to call them "Uzi Pistols", fine. I am just explaining to you that it's a somewhat gray area because any time you see a full-auto "Micro Uzi" in Hollywood, whether it has a folding stock or not, you are looking at an Uzi Pistol that was converted to full-auto, not a mil-spec "Micro Uzi".