Making Props for SF Movies
 

If you were propmaster for a Science fiction movie, how would you create exotic weapons for use by actors?
For instance, if I were doing a film, I would dress up G36 rifles with the parts of a VCR to resemble a futuristic laser weapon. From space.

Well I am not sure what you are asking. How would I merge a G36 with a VCR? Or what does a propmaster do? Or WHO is the person who creates custom sci fi weapons?

Well.....

In major motion pictures, they have custom prop shops, like the HAND PROP ROOM or other places that employ 'model fabricators' and designers. These special effects artists come from the 'model building' side of the props business. They have skill in sculpting, molding, painting and do tons of custom items as well as electronics.

I held the Medical Tri-corders that were used in Star Trek Voyager and they were AMAZING! They cost $2000 each to build and had the most advanced programmable LED 'light shows' to date built within the unit. They were built by a 'model building' shop by artists who specialized in plastic fabrication and electronics.

ARMORERS are closer to gunsmiths than modelbuilders. Sure armorers can do custom guns/conversion/fixes/specialty accessories/specialty fittings/etc. but to create SCI FI looking parts requires plastics fabrication, Vacuforming or other model building disciplines, like plexiglass fab or other metalworking skills.

As for a PROPMASTER, usually that person is just the guy in charge of acquiring and administering all the PROPS in a film. In movies heavy with military or law enforcement details, you can have a tech advisor or separate the propmaster duties and have a dedicated propmaster who specializes in weapons/uniforms/gear/etc. or is also an armorer. But 99.99% of propmasters just deal with the mundane details like "bedsheets", "Dinner plates", "Paintings on the wall", "Chairs", etc.

In the world of small student/amateur films, you wear 20 or so hats, so the propmaster would probably BUILD all the specialty props for the film as well as be responsible for all the real world props as well.

Nowadays, the advent of CHEAP crappy airsoft guns (CYMA, etc) allows propmasters much greater freedom in creating fake sci wi weapons. Just being creative and the "ability to figure out what junk to glue on to it" is required.

One thing I've always found funny about sci-fi movies from the late-80s and 90s is how they always have bullpup-type weapons, and those often pass for "futuristic" guns. Think how many action movies set in the future used to have Steyr AUGs, Mossberg 500 Bullpups, Calicos, Ruger Mini-14s in Muzzelite stocks, etc. Apparently, propmasters back then figured that in the future, everyone would be using bullpup long guns.

Propmasters don't make the final call. The DIRECTOR makes the final call. I've had directors pick the DUMBEST thing on the planet because they (a) knew nothing about guns and (b) thought it was 'cool'. We can't argue with them. That's a fast track to the unemployment line.:eek:

So propmasters don't make the initial choices? I thought the director usually just "signs off", unless they're big into micromanaging (that or they're like Michael Mann and DO care exactly what types of guns their characters use).

like? I always get a laugh out of stupid directors, examples?

I think the question was what kind of futuristic weapon you would make. As in: were you to make a sci-fi movie, what would your ideal future guns look like?

I'd be cool with anything, as long as they didn't try to pass the Calico series off as laser rifles. Maybe I would build something off the Glock 17, since it seems like it would be easy to add a shell to. I actually like the look of that one .22 Select Fire pistol that was made to replace the .45 1911 but failed at it(surprise. Can't replace the 1911.)

Two things also bug me.
1: Shiny laser guns.
2: Really scratched up laser guns.
Both seem like they are far too extreme. Who issues their troopers with guns with the finish 80% off? The Rebels sure, but nobody else in their right mind.

Some don't care. Depends on who you work with. But a good portion of them that I have worked with have asked for stupid guns, or at least didn't take the obviously cool choice. As far as bullpups, it was an easy fix for movies which had NO BUDGET to custom create guns. It takes quite a bit of preproduction $$ to hire someone to make a M590 Assault rifle or Morita Mark I. It is easier to trick out a MZ14 Muzzlelite stocked Ruger Mini14 (like in Space Rangers (1993)).

I remember in the 1990s, everyone wanted one of three guns, a Beretta 92FS, a Glock or an M1911A1. No other guns existed. Every subgun was an Uzi, Every assault rifle was an AK47 or M16. And yes, no other guns existed. And a lot of these people were adamant about wanting what they were familiar with, not with what was either correct or 'cool'.

Sorry, I've tried to push XDs on people with no success! ;)

Please keep trying with the XD's MPM. I would like to see more, but it really isn't that striking a design for viewers or directors.
Of course, I don't mind seeing P99s, and would like more. Even thought that thing is as wide as a Peterbuilt.

Can't blame them with the bullpup. Bullpup rifles are cool and sexy.

The new Taurus PT 45 looks kind of cool.

Were cool and sexy, before everyone realized what a pain in the ass they are to shoot.

Plus, directors, propmasters, etc. in the 1990s figured that all rifle designs in the future would be bullpups. Nobody would have thought that modularity and Picatinny rails would be the defining characteristics of guns in the early-21st century.

You forgot about MP5s. The weapon which EVERY action movie made in the 1990s just had to have. And Desert Eagles, of course...

Anyway, what is the level of input that directors usually give? Let's say you're doing a movie with cops and drug dealers, for example. Would the director actually tell you, "OK, I want the cops to have Glocks, except for the lead detective, who will have a USP. The gangstas will all have Berettas and 1911s and .357 revolvers"?

Or, would the director tell you, "We're doing a film with cops and drug dealers, what do you recommend?" And then you give him your recommendations, and he makes revisions as he sees fit?

Yeah, Bullpups feel weird for me, and I read so many bad reviews.

Bullpups have a rep of triggers sucking pretty much universally. Balance is usually poor too. I heard FN has their act together though and the F2000 is known to balance well, it sure looks bulky though. Why do the triggers suck that bad? The fact most arent even close to ambidextrous doesn't help. (Kudos to FN for solving that

I've held the FN P90 and an FS2000, the P90 is small and really fits tight on your body. I wouldn't mind having something compact like that. The FS2000 which is the civi F2000 does feel real bulky. The butt end is a bit long for me. When I held an M4 again with it's stock position all the way back, it feels less on my shoulder. The F2000, if you compare trigger to trigger with an M4 or M16 has a stock that is a few inches more. If you got long arms, you wouldn't mind the length of the F2000, but if you got shorter arms like me, then it bothers you and tires the hell out of your arms.

The F2000 truly looks like it shoots death rays, but the Calico family will always be the most futuristic weapons.

I want a video game to present the Desert Eagle .50 very well.

You would pick it up off a table, and be told to go to the firing line to practice(first person).

You aim, and pull the trigger.
The gun would fire and the recoil would bring it straight into your face, knocking your character back on the ground. You would climb to your feet, and look at the gigantic piece of shiny paper weight in your hand, and exchange it for a Glock. Bonus points if it jammed after that one shot.

Or a 1911....sorry hate deegles and blocks.

Well give it SOME credit, it would only knock you on your feet if you held it like a dumbass and it would jam eventually, but it wouldn't jam on the first shot. The Desert Eagle has been over-rated yes, but don't hate it for that. It isn't perfect, but it isn't quite useless.

Ha ha, true.
I just want to get smacked in the face in first person. It would be particularly fun.

How about a 500 esk (snubnosed 500 mag) or a portrayal of dual wielding where you cnat hit anything.

That would be so funny, seeing Desert Eagle video game noobs pick up their "ultimate combat handgun", only to have the recoil fling it back in their faces... :D

Having fired both a 357 mag Desert eagle, and a 50, I think the last thing I'd call them is a paper wieght. Like anything, a tool is only as good as the craftsman using it. ;)

Now, back on topic, if I were building guns for a sci-fi flick (and what do you know, I have) I'm partial to using clamshells to help hide the profile of the actual firearm.

Battlestar Galactica used clamshells for the first couple of seasons, and I thought that was pretty cool.

I-Robot also used revolvers hidden inside shells, as well as a PPK for spooners back-up.

Judge Dredd, while being a crap film had some cool guns in it. Same with Pluto Nash. Some of those guns had a cool look IMHO.

Blade Runner hid it's revolver inside the action and magwell of a steyr SL, and it's grip in a custom build.

Constantine has a great custom shotgun all tricked out and hidden.

Aliens use of metal shells around a thompson was pretty damn cool. The 870 in the spas cage was nothing less than inspired.

The first Starship Troopers also did a fine job of hiding the real guns inside shells too. of course, it's the dreaded "bullpup" style though, which never bothered me.

I think the trick is keeping the guns from feeling like toys. The hero pulse rifles weighed in at 30 pounds or something, so they used lighter materials for starship troopers, and lighter base guns.

I've also had occasion to just add on custom pieces to older style weapons like derringers, webley's, and smith model 3's to create a certain look or feel to the firearms.

And when I'm working with directors and producers who don't know anything about guns, I try to guide them to the best choices, and make them feel like it was their idea all along, and happily give them all the credit if it saves me headaches and makes the actors look cool. I'm more concerned about the end product than anything else.

I've had some very good luck with directors and producers though.

I forgot to mention the guns from Serenity! :) Great flick for guns.

The movie "Timecop" had nice looking pistols, and shotguns (which were disguised Desert Eagle pistols), I can't remember who designed their look, maybe Ron Cobb? Pluto Nash had some great looking pistols, which unlike "Timecop" don't seem to have appeared in other productions. I just wish that there were photos of the PN pistols where you could get a good look at them. For most recent s.f. movies you can find photos of the props, and drawings, but not PN.

David.

Man, when I see what they did to the Thompson in Aliens, I die a little inside.
I was totally okay with the messed up Ruger bullpup used in Starship Troopers, mainly because it had an awesome name.
"Morita." Rolls off the tongue. Unlike "pulse rifle." So bland.

The M1A1 Thompson inside the case was fine other than the wood pistol grip had grooves in it and the rear sight was removed. It was easily restored back to the original configuration after the show. Same goes for about 95% of the Sci-Fi mockups.

I can't say I dislike the M4, G36s, and MP5Ks in Doom. The movie might not have been good to everyone else, but it was enjoyable to me personally.

IMHO I like box type guns, uzi, thompson just to name a few, easy to clam it or add parts.

Like propmaster mentioned, it all depends on the director.

I have had one who wouldn't listen and started to stamp his feet, he won the battle but I won the war as it looked really bad on camera, atleast he manned up and said I was right in front of the whole crew.