I sure hate America Bashers..... Arghhh.:mad:
 

Sorry guys, I just 'duked it out' with an internet poster on another site, who turned out to be a 'teen from Holland' who really annoyed me with the comment that "the U.S. is as brutal or more brutal than the Soviet Union has ever been". That we've killed more innocent people in modern history, including Nazi Germany". WTF? Where to people get this garbage? The school system in Europe? :mad:

I'm angry, though I didn't bother to argue with this idiot. It is the internet after all. But I had to vent somewhere :) Does anyone else run into this crap?

All the time. When I lived in London, I met people who took "The Guardian" too seriously and believed the same kind of moronic tripe. You really do just have to remind yourself that they're idiots and that thinking they have a "cause" is often the only thing that they have in life. Or that they're kids who will grow up eventually. Either way, it's a sign of being pathetic.

I spot this usually BS on youtube

I got on and saw "i sure hate america....."? as the title, was a bout to flip lol.

I know plenty of american america bashers, I really hate them too. Especially the military bashers.

Sort of like the dumbass IRA supporter who should have been banned from the Patriot games talk page the one who claimed that all the british ever did was murder innocent lives. I'm sorry but what total utter fucking bullshit.

I've read the history of the IRA written by an Irish Journalist I have talked with men who used to associate with IRA backed bank robbers and have had rather vauge talks with men who have done tours of Northern Ireland. The British were trying to protect the majority in Northern Ireland from a violent minority trying to impose thier political views on everyone(yeah some of the major IRA players were open marxists)

As far as the British in Oman went the people sent in at the request of the ruler of Oman to stop an invasion from Soviet backed Yemen. They spent alot of their time drilling wells so that everyone in that nation could drink. Heck most of the native Omani that they trained and lead were once supporting the invading army.


I've heard similar things about US troops from idiots who's heads are filled with leftist propaganda. I swear they all seem to get their lines from the same playbook and have the minds of sheep.

You don't have to prove anything to that dutch kid.
If it wasn't for America he'd be in the Hitler Youth instead of philosophizing on the damn internet.

Just another guy fearing America semblance of power

Yeah, I get myself into flame wars defending America all the time, with most of the opposing parties spewing the same "American nazi" bullshit. But what can I say? I love my country, no matter what the world perceives as "wrong" with it. I've been called racist because I oppose closing Camp Delta, fascist because I tell off military bashers (funny how certain people call it "patriotic" to bash the country and accuse our troops of raping women and children with no proof, yet consider it "fascist" to support her and revere our troops as the honorable warriors they are... :rolleyes:), and a whole crapload of other bullshit. I tend to get it more due to the fact that I don't necessarily hate George W. (I don't particularly like him either, though). They're all hypocrites, probably just jealous that we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan instead of their shitty little third world sewage holes or that we are arguably the one entity on this planet that keeps it from degenerating into the post-apocalyptic wasteland we see in the Mad Max movies, considering we have enough nukes to obliterate it 3 times over and still have warheads left over afterward.

Anywho, I'd better stop before striking up political discussion. Politics make good friends into the worst of enemies in the blink of an eye.

But, yeah, I run into them all the time. There's always going to be someone that hates. Whoever said the Cold War is over lied... it just became a different kind of Colt War.

Most of them are simpletons and they don't do very well when confronted by somebody who can actually type and present a coherent response. Ever notice how many of them degenerate into name calling and a liberal use of profanity? It's becasue they spend all their time hanging out with people of a similiar mindset and all they do is reinforce each other's opinions.

I also find that once you send them a a couple well written posts they stop responding. Guess they were not prepared to deal with an actual living (Fascist) American.

And don't mention the people who preach about the zionist and NWO about. That shit just annoys me when I run into it

I hate the UN, does that make me an NWO type?

Nope that makes you smart. Given the number of outright dictatorships in the UN and those sorts need to put people under their thumbs. Frankly the US should stop funding the majority of UN operations. Heck, Should I speak about the UN's corrupt fuckup of a misson in Sierra Leone. Hell some of the top UN people on that mission were backing the rebels...:mad:

Any wonder why i like the sight of shot up blue helmets?

Cause the UN is stupid. They don't help. and America makes up the peacekeeping force. Without the US military, the UN will go the way of the League of Nations that was made after WWI and failed when WWII started

Depends on whether or not you're afraid of some gigantic UN conspiracy to take over the world or whatever.

I don't see any reason not to hate the UN...like Rockwolf said, it's full of dictators and radicals. Whenever the UN passes some new resolution condemning the U.S. or Israel, nobody should give two shits about what they say. But I think actually being afraid of the UN is kind of ridiculous. After all, there's not a whole lot they can do. They're impotent and whiny, not powerful and sinister.

Helmets? Most of the UN "peacekeeping forces" I've seen were so ragtag that the most they could afford is blue baseball caps. Maybe the hats have Kevlar inside? :confused: :D

A lot of them are also nothing but 12 year old kids who think it's "cool" to be anti-American.

That's because they buy into the crap about the average American being an uneducated high-school drop-out, but when they find they're up against a well-educated person who's up on a lot of current world political subjects, they hide under a thin veil of "accept my opinion" and cower away.

Don't forget the "Jew bankers" argument.

You mean with RUF and all that back in the '90s? Executive Outcomes was doing a better job there anyway. But what do I know? PMCs are "evil"... :rolleyes:

And pretty spineless, too. They're quick to denounce the US and Israel, but don't say much of anything in response to the Iranian supreme leader's pledge to nuke Israel off the face of the earth... :rolleyes:

Speaking of denouncing Israel. England is really bending over backwards for the muslims. I mean, they took Israel literally off their maps on Airline flights and in subways, they start taking off Israeli posters but keeping Muslin posters up

Well, now that i see you guys are talking about Israel i will say that the Israeli government does need to back down and start using some good strategies in their little war over there instead of taking the easy road of bombing targets. They should stop shitting all over their "Good Guy in the middle east" image in the west and try to win the hearts and minds of the palestinian people. Stop with that Israeli Settlement bullshit and the bombings. If they really wanted to do something, the Israelis should pull a Afghanistan. Go in there along side the Palestinian Government and fight the Hamas. While doing it, build hospitals, Schools, roads and all that shit. You Know, modernize the place. Most people in Israel and Palestine want peace, they want Israelis and Palestinians to live together. Of course, much like the Cold War in the western countries, The Israeli liberals want peace with Palestine and the Israeli Neo-Conservatives want a Greater Israel and all that bullshit. The same applies to Palestine.

Now to the America-Hating liberals. When 9/11 happened, everybody was going to help American fight terrorism. But when Bush invaded Iraq, stuff went down the shitter and most Governments said that they didn't agree with the justifications to invade Iraq. Then, it became cool and hip for 9 10 to 18 year old kids, both from the US and foreign, that don't know shit about politics, to hate on the United States. You can't do anything about them, really. And gentlemen, please stop reading youtube comments, seriously, i learned a long time ago that you aren't going to find anything but shit in them. The same applies to every website that has a comments section.

Fine, I'll shut up with the rants

Isn't that kind of hard? Contrary to what you've said, many Palestinians do not want "peace"; they just want Israel gone completely. At least, this is the case in Gaza; in the West Bank it's a little more flexible. But "winning over" the Palestinians is really not a very practical goal. I think Fatah's response to Netanyahu's acceptance of the two-state solution is indicative of this. Not to mention that your referring to Fatah as the Palestinian "government" is kind of ridiculous (it's mostly Fatah's fault that pro-Hamas sentiment took hold in Gaza).

I do agree that the settlements should stop (mostly because it's become an extremely convenient excuse for anti-Israelis to use when blaming Israel, and because the Israeli settlers are a bunch of deluded nationalist morons), but I really don't think it makes a difference. The Palestinians are mostly to blame for the conflict, and until they change, I don't think there's very much Israel can do to "win them over".

The thing is, there are palestinians that want peace. But because of the incredibly shitty education and Hamas shoving propaganda up people's asses, most palestinians hate Israel. The nationalistic assholes in Israel do almost the same thing. Israel has better education but nationalistic churches keep shoving "Greater Israel" bullshit down children's throats. The Israeli government did the right thing after the Munich Massacre. Yes, they fucked up in the Lillehammer affair but they assassinated the terrorists and did a decent job. They didn't bomb the shit of Palestine like they do now. Even though i actually think the Israeli government did actually bom Palestine but i'm not sure. Anyway, what we have there in Israel is a good old Religious War with some race war thrown in for good measure. While the Hamas does attack Israel, they do that because their interpretation of the Qur'an is that all jews must be destroyed and Israel is Muslim Territory. The Israelis say that because they are attacked, they must attack which makes sense, however nationalistic assholes think the Palestinian territory is Jewish so they gotta take the place back and make it all Israel.

Anyway, the thing is, When the palestinians change, the Israelis should probably back down a little. The thing is that winning the minds of the Palestinians would be hard. It would take years and Israeli presidentional administrations would change and all that. The Israeli government is taking the easy route of bombing the living shit outta Palestine with no regard for civilian casualities. And when most Israeli soldiers are conscripts and a lot of them hate Palestine because they are spoon feed their nationalistic version of the Jewish holy book, they are going to waste every Palestinian they see. I think what should happen is that there should be a line on the Israeli and Palestinian border. Guarded by Jewish friendly arab countries on the Palestinian side and neutral western countries on the Israeli side. Not using the UN because they are probably going to fuck it up one way or the other. The Israelis should also step up to Israeli churches that keep throwing hate speech about Arabs and make the education better, when they fix that, then they should move on to the Palestinians.

The Arab-Israeli line would work like this, the Liberal Arabs build schools and all that hearts and minds shit, the schools would pretty much be liberal as hell and teach the Palestinian kids to be friends with Israelis. If any Hamas cocksucker tries to start shit with the Israelis or get caugh doing something illegal, like smuggle weapons and all that, gets fucking arrested and thrown to the Israelis. If they try to attack the Arabian guards with lethal weapons, they get fucking blown away. The Israeli side guards just keep doing Military Police work. Except they don't let any Israeli get to the Palestinian side if they intent on living there permately (Sorry for the bad english) or do anything illegal. if any Israeli gets caught doing something bad for the Palestinians then they get arrested and thrown to the Israeli courts. The Western guards build buildings for the Israeli settlers when they finally get thrown out of their beloved little homes in Palestinian territory. That's pretty much it.

Ok, I have to say something about that. I'm not a fan of the UN, but what the fuck? That's no different from saying you hope US soldiers get killed. I have plenty of friends who've gone on UN missions and worn the blue helmet, and guess what, US troops do too. I'm sorry, but saying you hope any soldiers get killed on a deployment they didn't chose makes you no better than the most radical leftist.

Hmmm, I missed this earlier, but yeah, you are correct. Cheering on troops that serve in the UN getting killed, especially when they're from one's own country, is highly inappropriate.

That being said, I think Rockwolf is mostly referring to the fact that there are many UN "peacekeepers" who represent Third World dictatorships and kleptocraciess, and often they're just as thuggish as the rebel groups that they're supposed to be policing.

Very few of them, I'm afraid. Moderate Palestinians are few and far in between.

I do agree with you that there are many unsavory elements on the Israeli side (those hardcore ultra-religious settlers creep me out to no end, plus they're obviously not helping). But even if the Israelis behaved absolutely perfectly, I still doubt there would be peace. Antisemitism and a love of martyrdom aren't a problem merely because of Hamas' propaganda; they exist because many Palestinians hold those attitudes, always have and always will. Are you so quick to forget that the Palestinians actually tried to ally with the Nazis in World War II, before Israel existed?

Personally, I think the only thing Israel can do is just kick out the Palestinians, especially in Gaza. They were offered a perfectly reasonable deal and chose to reject it in favor of more war and more bloodshed. They deserve to suffer the consequences.

You mean like having radio conversations on an open frequency to a murderous rebel group to discus giving the country to them for blood diamonds. Or how about turning what to us westerners are underage girls into sexual slaves. Frankly the UN's track record is extremely bad when it comes to actually stopping a conflict and working towards peace. You have human rights abusers on the security councle. It's like letting a bunch of gangsters chair the local police oversight commitee.

A good solution would be to build a country just for the Palestinians. Far from Israel. That would take decades though.

But the thing is that's not want the Palestinians want, they want all of Israel.

Why do the Palestinians deserve ANY country? Isn't it pretty obvious that Arabs aren't capable of building countries that are prosperous and democratic? Why do we need another Arab country that will be either (A.) a secular autocracy, or (B.) an Islamic fascist state? There are already enough of those in the Middle East.

I think the only future for the Palestinians is to give Gaza back to Egypt, and the West Bank to Jordan, and be done with it. And the latter part is where, I admit, the ultranationalist Israeli settlers would prove to be as much of a nuisance as the Pals themselves. That, and the fact that the other Arabs (for all of their rhetorical posturing) hate the Palestinians about as much as the Israelis do.

Well, Giving Palestine back to Egypt and Jordan seems like a good idea. The problem is there is four million people in there. And if Palestine becomes Jordan and Egypt, what the hell do you think the palestinian extremists are going to do? They are going to start fucking up Jordan and Egypt. They will want independence because they want to go out and fight the Israelis once more.

And for the democratic arab countries. There is Jordan. It's not democratic but the King did say he wants Jordan to be a Democratic country. He took some steps towards democracy. Small steps but steps none the less. It has awesome liberal heads of state. There are problems in the country such as the lack of water and lack of oil but their Nuclear powerplants the Jordanian government is building would help with those problems.

If the protesters in Iran can finally top the Ayatollah and Dinner Jacket, then we would have Iran too.

The Palestinians will never fuck up Jordan or Egypt, for the simple fact that if they act up, both countries will gladly Black September the Pals' asses into submission. Unlike the Israelis, Arab countries almost never make peace deals with resistance groups within their borders...they simply clamp down upon them ruthlessly, and genocide the populations if the resistance gains popular support.

And as cold as it may sound, I really could care less if that's what happens to the Palestinians. I just can't bring myself to feel a whole lot of sympathy for them, no matter how much I might occasionally find the Israelis detestable.

Jordan is way, WAY away from being a democracy. It is a secular monarchy with a minor facade of democracy laid out on top. If Jordan is the best case you can cite for Arab democracy, you've got a serious problem.

The norm in the Arab world has been gangsters like Saddam and Qaddafi, and that is why I really don't think we need any more Arab countries. Their record doesn't lie. Those people are not capable of building democratic, free societies. They won't be until they (A.) become much more secular, (B.) learn how to educate themselves and build functioning societies, and (C.) stop blaming everyone else (meaning, America and Israel) for their problems.

...which, unfortunately, is not going to happen. I respect the bravery of the Iranian protesters, but the unfortunate fact is that they're outnumbered and will never be able to develop into a major revolutionary movement. For every one of the pro-democracy protesters, there are about 20 ultra-conservative Shi'a who support Ahmadinejad and are proud of the Islamic Revolution. Iran, too, is going to need to undergo enormous cultural change before it will become a democracy.

Even though i doubt about Jordan going genocide on the Palestinian's asses, i think Egypt would do it.

About Jordan, they are not an democracy, but they are way better than most countries around it.

And Iran, they had a huge cultural change since the revolution. Most of the young adults and teenagers are liberal as hell. That is your cultural Revolution right there. However, the Shia motherfuckers are always there, mostly in the rural areas. Also, after all those protests and all the horrible shit the Iranian Government did to the protesters, no one will want to anything with Iran. Their foreign policy will be worst than it is now, especially here in the United States.

Iran, much like North Korea, would make a better sheet of radioactive glass on the ground than it is a sovereign nation...

What happened to the good old days when you could threaten rogue nations with nuclear annihilation if they didn't do what we told them to do? :P

What the motherfuck? So nukes are our way of dealing with things now? Iran would make a more than great ally in the middle east if the protesters win. Besides, you how retarded it sounds when the United States goes around evil countries saying that they can't have nukes when the US has thousands of them? Either the American Government gets rid of their nukes, or they will just sound like hypocrites. We don't need nuclear weapons anymore. Iran may have them and DRPK may have them too, but we don't need to sink to their level to fight them.

We don't need nukes. Nukes will lead to destruction of nations. It seems we will only learn that when one or two nations become a 3rd world shithole.

Let's relax a little bit on the language, please? It's never a good sign when people start cursing at each other.

You act as though it didn't happen already? Although obviously Jordan now is very different from Jordan in 1970. But Arab regimes have repeatedly shown that they really don't mind killing larger number of the Pals than the Israelis ever have, whenever the Pals act up in their own countries. The way that Lebanon dealt with Fatah al-Islam a few years ago is a reminder that this still hasn't changed.

I know it's a cliche to make this kind of analogy, so forgive me in advance, but...that's like saying that AIDS is better than a malignant brain tumor.

I've told you before, it's not a "revolution" unless it actually brings about change in government. And Iran isn't going to change because of the protesters. Those "Shia motherfuckers" you mentioned are a vast, VAST majority. I haven't done much work on this myself, but I can point you to some very good journal articles by people I know about Iran's demographics and why they favor Ack-mah-whatshisface. And why that won't change anytime soon, no matter how many Nedas get themselves killed facing down the Basji motorcycle thugs.

And the protests aren't going to have any effect on Iran's foreign affairs where it matters...Russia, China, North Korea, and Venezuela will always be open to doing business with them.

Chill out. I think he's half-kidding. But anyway, the answer to his question is that threatening nuclear annihilation is kind of pointless. It's not what these stand-offs are really about, anyway.

...which they won't, as I've told you repeatedly.

We're not hypocritical at all. It's one of the perks of being a global superpower, actually.

Besides, one thing that's often overlooked is that the Russians and Chinese don't want Iran to have nukes either (at least, not implicitly) - they just enjoy using Iran as leverage against the U.S. to get what they want (in Russia's case, that means getting us to not put up ABMs in Poland and the Czech Republic).

Now you're just sounding ridiculous. Nuclear deterrence is all to the good. It means that nobody can go to war without destroying everything, in which case, there's no point in the first place. But arguing that we should NOT have nukes while the DPRK and Iran do is absurd.

And this applies to Iran and the DPRK. They aren't actually going to start nuclear war. Kim Jong Il enjoys his kidnapped Japanese actresses and cognac too much for that, and the same applies to Iran's clerics. They just like being able to use nukes as leverage to get what they want and keep themselves in power. The reason that the U.S. and Israel don't want Iran to have nukes is that we're afraid it will give Iran greater power to do other stuff (like interfere in Gaza, Lebanon, and Iraq by supplying militias) without severe repercussions.

When you get to college and if you go into Poli Sci, try reading Kenneth Waltz. Then maybe you'll understand why what you are saying now is naive bullshit.

I dunno, the fact that South Korea became democratic and prosperous suggests that the Korean people aren't necessarily inclined to live under tyrannical thugs permanently. I'm not so sure about the Persians, on the other hand...they have a tradition of brutal autocracy that extends back, way before even Islam. But anyway, those people don't deserve to be nuked.

As far as what happened to the "good old days", the answer is M.A.D. As I've told our Brazilian friend, nobody really believes nukes will ever get used again any time soon (not by states, anyway...terrorist groups are another matter). Nukes are by definition a deterrent to combat usage.

Iran's leaders are certifiably insane. They believe in the coming of the '12th imam', and believe that worldly armageddon is the way to make him arrive.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...oq=&fp=1&cad=b

DPRK, sure, as weird as that little dude in platform shoes is, you can reason with him, he's just a megalomaniacal dictator who wants his daily supplies of russian kaviar and his garage with rolls royces in 32543 different colors. The theocratic leadership in Iran is different.

Also from the index this topic looks like it's titled 'I sure hate America'. :D

If that were true than those protests would have been successful.

It's a psychological effect called an "Availability heuristic", meaning that simply because the protests were widely covered in the media -it makes you think that they are the majority even though they are really the minority.

Not that I don't find Shi'a Islam to be a really messed-up religion, but alarmist sites on a Google search are hardly a good way of assessing a regime's foreign policy.

Iran's clerics live decadent lifestyles, perhaps not as decadent as Kim Jong Il's, but still quite decadent nonetheless. They aren't about to sacrifice those lives, not even for Allah. The main utility of their ideology is that it lets them sound thousands of kids running across minefields so that they'll embrace martyrdom (see the Iran-Iraq War).

Exactly. The protesters are educated, speak English, and know how to use Facebook and Twitter. That's what gives them such easy accessibility to foreign media. If these cowardly reporters actually went to the rural areas or the slums of Tehran, they'd be greeted by hysterical fascist Shi'a men and women who preach about the glories of martyrdom. In other words, the kinds of people that whitebread pencil necks would never want to hang around. But demographically, the ultraconservative Shi'a are way, WAY in the majority in Iran. They're the reason that the Islamic Republic became what it is in the first place.