Columbine Shooting
 

I was in school today and I read a book accurately explaining everything that happened during the event. I've seen and read a lot of things but nothing has left me more disturbed than what those sickos did.

And it makes me hate illegal guns more than ever. I like LEGAL guns. I would never touch or sell an illegal gun. When I hear the guys bought two unknown pump shotguns, a Tech-9M (they call it a TEC-DC9 civilian semi-auto, but the surveillance clearly shows it is a mini), a High-Point 9mm carbine, and lots of ammo, it pisses me off.

This is a surveillance image of one of them with a TEC-9M in the cafeteria.
http://i40.tinypic.com/sya73s.jpg

These two guys massacred unarmed, defenseless students in the school library while laughing and commenting on it to each other. I'm glad their propane bomb failed to detonate, it would have doubled the casualties.

Now both these neo-nazi pricks are rotting in hell and the only thing about this that doesn't disturb me is the picture on sites showing them after they commited suicide.

Again, I'm in a bad mood so this seemed like a good thing to bring up.:D

The one thing I hate about Columbine after what those two dumb fucks (censor me if you have to, but that's about the only way you can describe them as) did is how it became, for a little while, the rallying cry for idiots like L. Brent Bozell and others who think life should be an episode of "Leave it to Beaver". I remember how they blamed The Matrix as influencing them, despite the fact that the movie came out a little less than a month beforehand and really, wouldn't have done a damn thing to influence them regardless.

The Virginia Tech incident was another thing that had something else to piss me off besides the actual shooter himself. For a little bit afterwards, people were screaming for more gun control laws. Funny thing is, I heard not too long afterwards that the VT shooter got his guns from a licensed dealer...who knew about his mental history...and apparently chose to ignore it. I think right about that same time, the clamor for more gun control died off, because, after all, what's the point of putting more laws on the books when the current ones weren't followed to begin with?

For the record, I'm not an Admin. on the forum, just the site so I CAN'T censor you, but I wouldn't. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Don't ban the kitchen like the MPAA. (strange analogy :confused:)

I want to pay inmates in his current prison to shank that little druggy bitch who sold the guns to the guys before the shooting.

They showed literally NO remorse, except for about 2 guys who they let walk away because "they liked them."

Funniest thing (although nothing about it was funny) is one of them broke his nose from the recoil of his shotgun because he fired it awkwardly shooting people under a table. Killed one girl because she said she believed in god. Made a song about it.

Now they have graves, one of which has "How can we ever forgive you?" etched on it. Better solution, don't forgive him and piss on his grave.

I have no sympathy for these guys no matter how bullied they were, they were remorseless psychopaths and they murdered everyone in sight, no matter who they were.

I wish someone would make a movie in dedication of the people murdered, but some asshole liberal director would make it all about the guns. :mad:

That's not a TEC-DC9?

As far as the shooting goes, I felt as bad about it as anyone, but there has been talk for years now about what a terrible school Columbine is. I've heard it's one of those places where there's a huge gap between the super-popular, prissy asshole-type kids, and everyone else. In other words, a place that represents all the worst stereotypes of high schools from bad Hollywood movies.

I remember even after the shooting, there was some kid who was interviewed who admitted that he'd bullied the two Columbine shooters. In TIME magazine, he openly bragged about doing it, and then made homophobic comments at the same type. A smiley jock bastard, too. As someone who dealt with those kinds of people as a teenager, I felt an awful lot of spite towards him, despite what he'd been through.

I don't mean to come across as insensitive, because it was incredibly cruel how Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold executed all of those kids (in the library, by lining them up to die). But the thing is, I'm also just not surprised it happened at Columbine, after hearing what the place is like.

It doesn't have a barrel shroud and it was only firing semi auto. No one had converted it to full auto. Since it has the short barrel and is the civilian gun, it is a TEC-9M or Mini. My dad owns one, the magazine doesn't feed into it right so it needs to be fixed.

My question is, if this guy being interviewed and openly admits he bullied them, why didn't they kill him? Aren't school shootings usually targeted towards the bullies?

They actually would've killed more people without guns, plan B was to blow up some propane tanks in the cafeteria at lunch. Most estimates said death toll would at least double depending on where bombs were.

The TEC-DC9 is not full-auto. It's a "politically correct" version of the original TEC-9 with some minor changes (mostly, the name) that was introduced after several states banned the original model. The KG-9 was the version that was able to be converted to auto (allegedly).

As for why he wasn't killed by them, I don't remember. Maybe they just didn't find him, but did want to kill him. Columbine's a big school.

I'm thinking of them in the wrong order. But the gun in the pic does still appear to be a TEC-9M.

All of the line were renamed DC9 after the state/local bans. Here is an advertisement that Intratec put out in the early-1990s. You can see that they call the mini version the "TEC-DC9M":

http://guns4u.info/wp-content/upload...tec_dc-9_1.jpg

Few people realize that banning guns doesn't solve the problem. All it does is disarm the law-abiding public. Criminals will get guns, whether they're legal to own or not.

Of course, I doubt that's any kind of news flash to you guys. ;)

With the subject of school shootings, it's tragic and it happens, people snap and there are people out there who are simply just stupid and insane and wont listen to reason and lost their sanity entirely. It's all about them being in the spotlight cause no one pays attention to them before.

I think we need to enlighten everyone to the dangers and real facts about life instead of covering their ears when they start hearing something that makes the uncomfortable. Most people who makes gun laws, and even those preaching world peace can be very naive to the fact that the world isn't safe, that there are people who dont obey the law, that the police cant be everywhere, that governments can be corrupted, and it is up to us to make sure we are safe, our families are safe with our own hands and actions.

I know it sounds grim that the world isn't really all about love and peace, but it's the natual way of things. We can hope for a better tomorrow, but until there is one, we keep our guards up and watch out. It's not being paranoid, it's being safe.

I do think that there's a bit of a difference between a bunch of zit-faced teenagers versus organized criminal gangs, however.

Huh. In that case I guess I'm wrong.

Well.... on the anniversary of the Columbine shooting, I feel I must point out some things. Being that this was like yesterday for me, though I was NOT in Colorado at the time.

Other points which are probably NOT part of the 'official history':

-The Jefferson County SWAT waited hours before going in. Even when there were already reports that the gunmen were dead. I wonder. These guys have MP5s and M4s..... what are they waiting for? Just so you don't think I'm bashing them, I had a LOT of friends who were cops and SWAT team members in California, who derisively called Jefferson County SWAT, the "SQUAT" team.

-I don't know if the official reports make a big deal out of the fact that an adult, Mark Manes sold these minors, the pistol (the punk's girlfriend who was over 18 bought the shotguns at a gunshow, which she could have, but she violated the straw man purchase law). Mark Manes was the son of two former high level BRADY HANDGUN CONTROL GROUP officials.

- One of the school teachers who died could have been saved, but the SQUAT team member who cleared the room told the kids (who were applying pressure to the bleeding wound in his leg and keeping him from bleeding to death) to 'get the fuck out!". When the students told the officer that their teacher was gravely wounded and that he needed medical attention, the officer told them to 'shut the fuck up' and led them out of the building with their hands over their heads. The teacher was left alone, bleeding for about another hour until he bled to death.

- Anyone with an NRA or pro 2nd amendment bumper sticker on their car, had the car vandalized. A 'mob mentality' was flamed by the mayor of Denver. Three guys I know personally had their trucks firebombed, purely because they had NRA sticker on them.

- The NRA (with probably the worst luck ever) had their annual convention scheduled to be in Denver within days of the event. Like the headline grabbing charlatans they are, the anti gunners DEMANDED that the NRA cancel their convention (as if the NRA had anything to do with these psychos). However, none of the hotels or convention center vendors OR THE CITY of DENVER themselves would REFUND any of the money spent by the NRA. So it was a case of "Give us all your money and fuck off!" by the Mayor of Denver and his followers. The NRA had to cancel all of their social activities and just had the meeting which by their by-laws they had to have in order to vote in the officers of the organization. They still were protested by a march (led by the Denver mayor) and this protest was heavily covered by the MEDIA.

- The local office of a pro gun group was heavily vandalized, and death threats were called to the homes of pro gun activists. (What a great way to protest mindless violence, by committing more mindless violence....)

I know some of the members here are too young to even remember the event. Columbine was pivotal event which led to the newer California Assault weapon ban (the 2nd one since 1989) which screwed over California gun owners by banning anything with a single feature and detachable magazine. The Columbine attack was April 20th, with several months the new AW ban was passed and then California Governor Davis signed it on July 20th, 1999. It went into effect on Midnight December 31st 1999. So these fucktards did more than massacre completely innocent people. They were responsible for some of the most draconian changes in state guns laws in the last 25 years......

I actually remember hearing that on at least one CNN report. I think HCI (before they became the Brady Campaign) even had a statement, though I'll have to dig it up...

I've heard things about this on pro-RKBA message boards, but had no idea how valid it was.

Are you also aware that Rachel Scott's (one of the victims') dad came out in defense of the NRA, but his statement was largely ignored by the media?


My own hometown (Chapel Hill, NC) also discussed making gun laws stricter. Right now, Orange County (where Chapel Hill is located) now has laws requiring a person who wants to get a handgun purchase permit to have three people sign their permit application. This became law not long after Columbine. It's the reason I have never purchased a handgun in my home state.

But obviously, that's not as bad as CA...:(

An article from CNN on stuff not related to gun control:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/20/...ths/index.html

Must admit, some of the stuff in there did contradict my own memories of the incident (I was 13 at the time and remember it pretty well...in part because my school insisted on discussing it for like a week).

I saw articles saying some basic things told to us was a lie.

Take this for instance: In the media We hear about normal kids bullied and forced to be outsiders, being beat on and made fun of, and snapping finally.

In real life, They were known as the school bullies, they were the ones beating on anyone they hated, be it any non whites or "fags." One was even deemed a sociopath after seeing a therapist. How's this for a little role reversal.

That may be true. But there are also accounts from quite a few Columbine students who say it's not a place for non-conformists.

Also, part of the rumors about them being bullied (instead of bullies themselves) comes from a Columbine student who made homophobic comments and said he'd mocked them in the past.

There are jsut as many people saying H&K said homophobic stuff to them, it's just not as newsworthy i guess. We tend to get what the media wants to report. The truth about any major incident is usually hard to find unfortunately.

What is interesting is that law enforcement, specifically the FBI, went out of their way to pity the Harris and Klebold families. For all accounts, they were kind and normal people who didn't do anything strange or out of the ordinary when raising these two maniacs. Actually there was ONE sociopath and ONE weak person who was swept up in the paranoia and hatred of the Sociopath....

Boy I sure felt sorry for the Harris and Klebold families, especially when the Feds stated that the families were victims and that they had the unfortunate luck of giving birth to 'sociopaths'. Sometimes it's nature, not nurture and sometimes normal people can give birth to monsters. So sad.

Don't get me wrong...I have zero sympathy for those fuckers. Narcissistic adolescents (and, worse, 20-somethings) annoy the shit out of me as a rule, and those who use it as an excuse to kill are just downright evil.

But I have heard that Columbine is a school that is relatively intolerant of outsiders.

Still, that's no excuse to go on a shooting spree. I just don't see why they would kill everyone in sight except like three people they knew and liked. If they were bullied, why not target the one who bullied them? Instead they hunted down christians and black kids because they were a bunch of KKK bastards. Clearly insane. They opted to KNIFE people when shooting became "no longer fun".

And their use of the TEC-DC9M lead to the imminent shut-down of the company (Interdynamics I think?). Bastards. I'd like to find the druggy asshole who sold it to them and kick his ass. I hope he's being fucked in prison as we speak.

How come Hi-Point didn't catch shit for one of them using the 9mm Carbine? Or any of the shotgun companies? Total media bias.

Rumor control...

(1.) They weren't Neo-Nazis or KKK types; their victims were of many races and religious backgrounds. There's no real pattern in their killings. They were nihilists, not ideologues.
(2.) No, they were not bullied. Or at least, if they were bullied, they were sure doing a lot of bullying themselves, which makes them hypocrites even if bullying was their motive (which it surely wasn't).
(3.) I don't think anyone at Columbine was knifed. Only shot.

Navegar, Inc. (Intratec). I don't think the Columbine shooting had anything to do with it. Navegar went under because their market disappeared. They closed down in 2001, two years after Columbine, not immediately after.

Mark Manes, who sold them the TEC-9, did 6 years in prison, if I recall correctly.

Well, let's be fair here...Intratec has a bad rep with the Feds. Hi-Point doesn't, and neither did the shotgun manufacturers.

But there was a lot of media attention dedicated to Hi-Point that I recall.

Well they asked some victims if they believed in God, which I believe controlled their fate depending on their response. And I read in the report that they shot a black kid solely for being black, so even if they weren't KKK/Neo-Nazis, they had those views.

No, they didn't knife anyone, but they suggested it when they reportedly got "bored" shooting people.

I think it says on the TEC-9 page how the Columbine Shooting had quite a bit to do with Intratec closing. Maybe I'm wrong.

The believe in god thing is a myth.

Yeah, the girl who supposedly got killed after saying she believed in God actually never said that. It was somebody else in the room who lived.

The negative publicity certainly would have accelerated its demise, but Intratec had been on the rocks for many years prior to Columbine. A lot of it had to do with lawsuits which were even before Columbine. In 1993, a guy shot up a San Francisco law firm using a pair of TEC-9s, and the victim's families filed a lawsuit that hurt Intratec pretty badly. I believe another was filed around 1997-98. These multiple lawsuits, combined with the fact that Intratec's business was hurt pretty badly by the AWB, led to the company's demise. Columbine was the nail in the coffin.

Also, Intratec had a bad reputation with BATF going back many years.

I own a TEC-9 Mini but there's something wrong with the magazine catch so it won't chamber rounds. My dad says he'll fix it when he has time, I have no clue how to fix it myself.

I don't see what is so appealing to criminals about it, the bolt is heavy and feels sloppy. I guess the 32 round mag capacity is the best thing about it for crooks, since none of them can aim anyway.

Thing is after every shooting we always hear sympathy for shooter, how htey were a nice guy and it surprised everyone. Here in maine a guy engaged some cops during a traffic stop, jumped out of his car firing and was killed. LAter that week people are blaming the cops, saying the "victim" helped motorists who broke down and did volunteer service.

Why can't the news have someone saying " Yeah, he was an asshole, doesn't surprise me"?

We always hear the sympathy for shooters, cowards who kill innocents and off themselves. They can all go to hell.

I believe I might have comment this about school shooters and that their true motives weren't of anything religious or whatever cult believes. I think they did it to see how long they can hold out before they run out of ammo, get caught or get shot. It's all about attention and they wanted to get as much attention as possible to the bitter end. I think they just did it for fun to see how long they can last.

Because more often than not, the shooter acts out because he's totally withdrawn and people don't known him as well as they think they do.

When I was in HS, I knew a guy who eventually ran away from home and eventually made bomb threats. People acted surprised then, too. I wasn't that surprised. I had known him well enough to know that that sort of thing was very much in line with his personality. Because I was one of the few people he called a friend. Most other people didn't know him like I did because they avoided him, and he avoided them.

I don't want to sound insensitive, but it's kind of a shame that things like the Intratec guns will always be associated with this. I suppose they are typically "gang-guns" anyway, but still.

Yeah, I think the TEC-9 was already notorious enough as a "gang-banger's gun" before Columbine. When most people think of TEC-9s, they think of Crip gang members firing TECs from the windows of a moving car while doing a drive-by (with a sideways "gangsta" grip, of course). Same way that everyone associates Tommy Guns with Prohibition Era-gangsters. Even now, the TEC still has that reputation despite the fact that it isn't produced anymore.

Plus there was the shooting in San Francisco, 6 years before Columbine.

What is so great about a Tec 9 anyway?

Basically, nothing. It was poorly made and had a reputation for jamming. Most people I know who have owned or fired TECs regard them as crap. But for gang-bangers and other criminal lowlifes, it was appealing because of its intimidating subgun-like appearance and its low price.

Also, who said anything about it being "great", anyway?

It's a pretty terrible weapon system, but it's aesthetically pleasing, so ganstaz pick 'em up tilt 'em at precisely 90 degrees, and fire at stuff cause it's cool. Firearms to those kinds of people are weapons first, and jewelry an immediate second (hence the desire for DESERT FUCKING EAGLES with Gold or Chrome plating;useless, but pretty). I went to the DEA Museum in Washington D.C. and on display they have a Chrome Plated 1911 with solid diamond grips that was taken off a drug kingpin. Twas big pimpin' if I do say so myself.

Ever read give a boy a gun? Liberal propaganda taht we needed to read back in HS, and It just had every bad stereotype. Kids talked about tec9s all day and went and bought one with ease. They bought there pistol, a brazilian 9mm for 30 dollars? And they were "nice kids bullied too much" Then the last section was a big call to ban guns. Made me sick, wheres the puke icon on the smilies?

Interestingly enough, my American Government teacher assigned the class to write about the Second Amendment and whether or not people should be able to have guns.
I wrote the longest response, and commended him for a fair and informative assignment. It was funny reading anti-gunner kids who regurgitated what they had heard from the media or their parents and responding to their silly messages with more accurate or up to date facts that were given to us by the reading (the AWB was still in place during the publication). I even referenced Columbine and how the Tec 9 was banned during the shooting and how the ban didn't stop them from getting the gun. Criminals. *shakes fist*

The fact my school made us read this pissed me off. Oh well, college now.

When I was in high school, my health class teacher made us watch an anti-gun video called "Guns R Us" or something. I believe it was made in cooperation with the VPC - which would make sense because I remember it explicitly called for banning both AWs and handguns and had interview snippets with Kristen Rand. The video also repeated the old lie about how the NRA "opposed banning cop-killer bullets". Of course, no argument from the opposing side was presented at all.

Fortunately, being that I'm from North Carolina, there were quite a few kids in the class besides myself who were upset with her for showing the video. :)