Question from a first timer
 

Ok so I am new to the gun world, just turned 21 and have been looking into a handgun to get. I feel like I have narrowed it down to either a Glock 17 or a S & W Sigma Series SW9VE 9mm (I was thinking 9mm either way because I thought it would be a cheap and easy way to get started correct me if I'm wrong). If anyone has any tips on which to go with or even another gun altogether I would love to hear any opinions since I really know very little. Thanks.

The Sigma is basically a glock with a heavier trigger pull. If you have the money, I'd say get a sig. If not, the ruger p-series is always a good deal.

I've fired several different Glock models (-17, -17C, -19, -22, and -26, all but the -17C rented), handled many more, and have yet to find one I liked as much as my SIG P226. The contours of the grips are uniformly awful on Glocks. They are, however, quite reliable, almost indestructible, and inexpensive. You can't really go wrong with them, especially as a first-time handgun buyer; plenty of people I know own Glocks and like them. But you can also do better.

I know very little about the S&W Sigma series, as I've never handled/fired one before. Looking at them, I'd say the grip design seems more ergonomic, but have heard the same trigger complaints which k9870 mentioned. The M&P might be better, except it's also pricier.

Besides Glocks, there are plenty of better options. The Springfield XD series is also quite popular, plus they have better grips (except for the XD45, which I found too wide for my hands), better triggers, and are just as reliable and durable as Glocks. The SIG Pro is also not a bad choice, though they're a little overpriced for what you get (they tend to go for $100 more than Glocks).

I have no experience with Ruger's polymer-framed pistols, but there's a de facto boycott against them in most of the gun-owning community (it's taboo to praise Rugers anymore, though I really like the P94 I fired).

Actually it used to be taboo, some people just don't notice bill ruger died and his traitorism went with him. Whole new company now. I know people with p94, p95 and the very well liked p90. All are rugged and accurate.

The sigma is kind of glock-like but has a full double action pull, while the glock is partially cocked and a little lighter.

I've shot a few Glocks and I love them. I recommend them. Glocks are super easy to dissassemble and clean, so I thought that was an awesome feature as well. Plus, it's a cop gun, so it's cool...

I would also suggest www.thefiringline.com for gun questions.

If it's between the G17 and the Sigma, I choose the Glock everytime. I own a 3rd generation Glock 17 and I'm liking it more and more. It's my competition shooting pistol.
Pros:
super reliable, low maintenance, relatively accurate (provided you aren't bothered by the grip angle), easy to operate, easy to field strip, tons of parts/accessories that are easy to come by.

Cons:
the grip angle bothers a lot of people so try it out and see if it suits you, pretty bland pistol (i don't want to say ugly b/c i honestly sort of like the simple look to it but it's def no 1911 in the looks department),

All in all the Glock is a great gun, not the best, but great none the less. There are tons of other alternatives too but it really depends on a few criteria. Answer yourselves these questions.

1. Price Range?
2. What do you want the main purpose of the gun to be?
3. Do you want polymer or steel?
4. Do you prefer SA (single action), DAO (double action only), DA/SA (double action/single action), or one of the many other variants of triggers (DAK, LEM, Etc...)
5. Autoloader or Revolver? (sounds like you've decided on a autoloader)

Sigs, HK's, and 1911's are great but tend to cost a bit more. For cheaper Springfield XD's, Smith and Wesson M&P's, and Beretta PX4 Storm's are generally a bit cheaper but still a great buy. CZ's are a good choice and they have a huge following of fans.

Whatever you decide to get I highly suggest that you go through a firearm safety course so you get familar with gun safety. Too many people think they don't need to take a class but these are the people who give gun owners a bad name and are downright dangerous when it comes to handling guns. Welcome to the gun world, better get another job because it becomes a very expensive hobby.

Thanks for all of the help every little thing that is probably trivial to all of you is new to me so I appreciate it. I never thought when I first started looking there would be so much involved in the process. To answer some of those questions:

1. Right now $600 is probably my top range.
2. My dad has a couple guns and most of the use would be taking it to the range and shooting with him and also home defense (although hopefully it will never come to that).
3. I don't have a preference on polymer or steel.
4. Again as far as the action and trigger variants I don't know enough about them to know what I prefer probably whatever would be easiest to get used to for my first one.
5. And yes I have decided on autoloader for my first one.

Also I think my dad was planning on both of us going through a course like you mentioned he is fairly new to all of this as well and I wouldn't even be comfortable owning a gun and not knowing everything I need to so I will be sure to do that.

Sounds like I have some more research to do.

Some additional points...

If that's the case, you should definitely look at some alternatives in that price range, especially the Springfield XD and SIG Pro 2022.

You'll probably find you like polymer better, but then again, maybe not. My favorite pistol in the whole world, the SIG P226, is all-metal. A new one would cost you way more than $600, but a used one is highly recommended (I can tell you all about those).

Then I wouldn't be too concerned about it, personally. The only thing I can say is that you might find you prefer the simplicity of DA-only (many people do nowadays).

I would recommend finding a local range that rents guns out. That's usually the best thing to do, though it also means you'll have to spend money on ammo and range fees.

In the $600 price range I suggest you look the Glock, XD, M&P, and Px4 Storm. There are others as well. If you like the 1911, they can be had in that price range if you look for Rock Island Armorys, Taurus, Springfield GI, I believe STI as well. Go to a range that rents pistols and try a few out before you buy. That way you can decide what you like. What you like may be different from what others like.

Personally, I like to think my pistols are guns that cops don't use. Simply because I've met too many cops who were sleazy, lazy, and incompetent. Plus, commonplace. That's part of the appeal of SIGs to me - every local cop at Dunkin Donuts has a Glock of some kind, whereas SIGs are the preferred choice of the far-better trained Federal LE agencies and SF units.*











*OK, that's not totally true. Here's in Texas, SIGs are pretty common. When I first moved here, I saw some Highway Patrol officers eating lunch at a Mexican restaurant, and they carried DAK versions of the P226 and P229 on their hips.

I liked all the cops I've met because I meet them all as customers and good friends in my dad's shop. My town's police carries Glock 22s (shocker, FBI isn't the ONLY ones who use those), and a litter farther out the Dutchess police use Glock 37s.

I think SIGs are great guns, I just think Glocks are great guns too.

I probably will need to get out to a range and shoot a few different models. Everyone obviously has their own opinions and I can't really form my own without trying some out.

By the way I do really love the look and feel of 1911's but the only ones in that price range I found were Taurus and I have heard some not great things about them. Anyone have any good experiences with a Taurus 1911? Also I didn't think a 1911 would be a very practical choice for my first gun.

The cops in my town carry usp-45s and i hate hk. The ones in portland, right next to me, carry S&W 4506s and I do like those. I see very few glockers here, but that's good. I find glocks to be that everyone-and-their-brother-have-one boring commonplace gun and glock could at least put the good barrels on at the factory, instead of making people pay to be able to compete with sig.

If you want a 1911 in the Taurus price range, get a stainless steel Springfield Mil-Spec. If you have a little more money, get a Loaded. They're both made with the same frames as a Taurus guns, but they have a better reputation (and look if you ask me).

A Glock is fine too, but be sure you're used to no external safety, and check the chamber, a lot.

The way I see it is the Taurus PT1911 is either hit or miss. You either get a really great one or you get one that causes nothing but problems. As a general rule for me, I don't really trust Taurus autoloaders. I know they aren't all lemons but there is a larger amount of problems from them then there should be. Plus their stuff doesn't typically appeal to me anyways. However, like I mentioned before, there are other 1911 options in your price range. RIA being a great choice and the Springfield GI another one. I decided I wanted a really nice 1911 so I spent a little over a $1000 on mine and don't regret it. If it is mostly going to be a range gun plus also the HD factor I don't see how a 1911 would be impractical. That being said .45acp is quite a bit more expensive then 9mm (yeah i know you can get 1911's in other calibers but .45 is the most common plus a 1911 should be .45 IMO) Pretty much any of the options mentioned in this thread are all good guns. Don't be afraid to buy used either. Gun owners typically tend to take care of their stuff, just inspect it (preferably shoot) before you buy if you do decide to go that route.

Springer mil-specs are well known for reliability, though the GI is not, heard too many stories of them jamming on anything but fmj. Rock island/armscor has a good rep as solid 1911s too. If you want to shoot for accuracy, i'd get a 1911 or gun with da/sa firing, double action only on an automatic doesn't make much sense. For overall simplicity though, why not a revovler? A used ruger gp-100 can usually be found around 400 dolalrs and is built like a tank. Fires in double action but you can pull hammer back for single action shots while target shooting.

So how do the safties on Glock's work?

I took a look at some of the Springfield 1911's and have to say those look amazing. Is it a huge difference price wise between the 9mm and .45 if I take it to the range a lot?

It's pretty simple...you keep your finger away from the trigger until you intend to shoot. :D

In general, yes. Which is part of the reason that I prefer and continue to buy 9mm pistols despite the fact that this caliber has been eclipsed by the .40 in popularity, and the fact that many Americans like .45.

That is what I thought when reading about the safety system it just sounds to me like it defeats the purpose of having a safety if you can pull the trigger and shoot at anytime.

By the way I was also looking at the nex XDM Springfield's has anyone shot or heard much about those?

The general consensus is the XD trumps glock. I haven't shot an XD but know a couple people who love theirs, one a 9mm and one a 45 with 13 round mag, which is pretty cool.

Well, the idea is that as long as you don't tap the safety that's built into the trigger itself, it shouldn't matter. It simplifies the motion of preparing the gun for firing. I'm not really of the opinion that external safety switches are that important.

As far as the XDM goes, I don't know too much about them. My range just got a few in, but they're not for rental yet. But the XD series in general are very good guns.

It has a much better grip. That's always welcome. However, it's not quite as well-made as the Glocks (the finish on the XD's slide apparently doesn't last as long as the Tenifer coating on Glocks, though that shouldn't matter to any civilian).

I also find it a tiny bit odd that nobody really gave a shit about the XD back when it was produced by the Croatians (as the HS2000), but as soon as Springfield renamed it the XD, it suddenly became THE handgun everyone wanted. I sometimes wonder if this is because Americans needed to feel like the Europeans hadn't outdone them in the ability to produce good handguns (because let's face it...nobody was able to admit honestly that they liked Ruger's or S&W's polymer pistols).

I think that has a lot to do with Springfields advertising. The HS2000 was relatively unknown and not a really popular brand. When it became the XD, it also came with the Springfield name and we were bombarded with advertising for it. I don't think that people think it's better as the XD, just people are more aware of it.

The XD in general is a great pistol. I have a XD40 subcompact that I carry on a daily basis. It's been 100% reliable and has a more 1911 style grip angle compared to the strange Glock grip angle. I love my Glock though too so yeah...

Well I found a range nearby my hometown that rents guns out so I'll have to get out there and shoot a few to help make up my mind.

Another question though I talked to our local firearms dealer and I had them price a Springfield 1911 Loaded I think the model was px9151 and they told me they could get it new for $650. Everywhere I looked online it was at least $800 sometimes a little more and I was wondering why there was such a big difference in the price they gave me.

gunsamerica.com has a slightly used one for $550. budsgunshop.com has it new for $760. For that particular model I would say that $600-$700 is a pretty good deal.

i've heard the mil spec is a better gun

Yeah I thought that sounded like a pretty good deal. I've never handled either but I thought from reading the specs the Loaded is a step up from Mil-Spec but maybe thats not right.

Also the more I keep reading about and looking at the XDM's the more I like them. Any preferences over 9mm and .40?

9 is cheaper 40 is a better defensive round, you palnning on SD or target shooting as main purpose.?

It will probably get most of the use at the range but I will keep it at my house if the situation for SD would ever arise (although hopefully that would never be needed).

For Home defense you may want 9mm since 40 is likely to over penetrate. For concealed carry, id go 40. Your case is range+HD, so ill say 9. 9 cost about half of what 40 does so you can get a lot of practice. You look at any wheelguns? I like revolvers, and you have the option of 2 types of ammo. Simpler, more reliable too.

I'm probably one of the few anti .40 guys on here, but I suggest you get a 9. Ammo is cheaper and has less recoil, and is generally more accurate/precise because of this. Also, in most guns, we're talking a 3 or 4 round difference in capacity, so you get more quantity of a round that yields better grouping. Though 9mm is definitely weaker in terms of muzzle energy, if you get good loads or half decent hollow points, you have a more than adequate defense round. Don't get .40 unless you know what you're doing, though.

I'm actually not a big fan of .40 myself. I think it's a ridiculously overrated cartridge, especially considering how much more it costs than 9mm. I prefer and continue to buy 9mm pistols and ammo even though it's a supposedly "outdated" cartridge.

Not sure recoil's a huge problem, though. I once rented a 9mm P226 at the same time one of my colleagues rented a .40-cal P226, and I can't remember if I was able to tell the difference in recoil.

Oh, and yeah, and interesting story: I know somebody who owns both a Glock 19 and a Glock 23. When I asked him why, he said, "The G19 is the one I take to the range, the G23 is the one that sits on my bedstand." He's not the only person I've met who does this, either. Food for thought...

(1.) If you intend to use it at the range, then you want 9mm. Much cheaper. I tend to secretly laugh at the people I know who only buy .40 pistols because "that's what cops use" and then they have to pay way more than I do for ammo. (plus, my range has often been out of stock on .40 lately)

(2.) Unless you live in a high-crime area, I wouldn't let self-defense influence your decision to choose .40 over 9mm or vice-versa.

Sounds like 9mm is probably the way to go for me since I really have no experience with anything and not enough money to pay twice as much for ammo.

As for home defense, I go to school at Ohio State in Columbus and the neighborhood I live in is not too bad as far as off campus housing goes. The town I grew up in (and live in during the summer) has an almost non-existent crime rate. That being said the clear majority of the usage will be at the range.

By the way the XDM 9mm has a 19+1 capacity I think do any other pistols on the market have that big of clip size without being modified?

Oh and by the way k9870 I have not really looked at any revolvers I guess they haven't really caught my fancy at all. My dad used to have a S&W model 66 with a six inch barrel from the 70's awhile back and I know he loved it I just never imagined a revolver as my first gun I don't have a good reason for that though.

If you're worried about over penetration, get bullets that stop when it hits someone

The FN Five Seven comes standard with 20 round magazines, but the 5.7 x 28mm ammo is much more scarce and more expensive than the 9mm. Not to mention I would take an XDM any day of the week over the Five Seven. I do love FN, just not super crazy about the Five Seven or the 5.7 x 28mm cartidge.

I think the .40 is a great round, I think it's a great compromise between capacity and firepower between the 9mm and .45acp. I will tell you this though, even though I am a big fan of the .40S&W, I suggest going with the 9mm if you plan to mostly target shoot and don't have a ton of extra money to spend on ammo. 9mm costs way less and the more ammo you can afford the more practice you can get in and that's what is really important. Shot placement is everything so buy the cheaper ammo and keep practicing. Also the 9mm has enough knockdown power given proper shot placement, especially if you use +p ammo.

Glocks has three safety. Trigger safety, drop safety, and fire pin safety. It does not have a manual safety.

Here are the four gun safety rules:

1 Treat firearms as if they are loaded
2 Point the muzzle in a safe direction
3 Keep finger off the trigger
4 Be sure of your target—and of what is beyond it

40 recoils about the same as 45, it just works better in small guns and you get more capacity, it shoots flatter but you can't claim self defense at 50 yards can you? 9mm is betetr for a new shooter to get lots of practice cheap, and just move up to a bigger caliber in the future when you feel confortable with it and have the money.

Sounds like 9mm is the one then and like I said I am really leaning towards the XDM I love the look and have been reading some pretty good things about them. Hopefully the range I go to has one to rent out so I can make sure I like the feel and everything.

Thanks a lot for all the help everyone I definetly needed it.

One more (possibly stupid) question. Say I went with the XDM does any 9mm round work or is there a certain kind and if so where can I find out which one it needs?