Region-appropriate firearms: South America
 

After doing a lot of work on the Boiling Point: Road to Hell page, I was wondering just how appropriate the firearms on that page are to the location the game takes place in (a fictional country modelled after elements of Colombia and Bolivia). AK-47s and IMBEL-MD3s? Sure. A Colt Anaconda in the pants of every "able-bodied" male civilian? Not so much. The Government military forces using M16s instead of the IMBEL rifles, the latter of which happen to be the standard-issue for the Drug Lords of the game? Not really believable, either.

I'm also surprised that Colt Anacondas feature so heavily in the game, when smaller, more practical pistols like the Taurus PT92 or PT1911 could be more reasonalbe carry pieces for the average civilian in the game. Replacing the Colt Anaconda with the Taurus Raging Bull might have been appropriate as well. Can anyone fill me in on what would have been more appropriate for a film or game set in a South American country with high rates of criminality, drug use, a group of insurgents running in the jungle and Narco-thugs everywhere? (Of course, that description already encompasses too many real life South American countries).

I'm also at a loss for other "local" firearms companies in South America--IMBEL and Taurus International are the only South American firearms manufacturers I know about, but surely they can't be the only ones. They're just the most well-known, right? Kind of how Colt is just the most famous American small-arms manufacturer, but is by no means the only one of note. I'd appreciate it if anyone could clear this up.

Finally, if you've read this far, I'm sure you've noticed that the Boiling Point page is still largely full of "unknown" entries because my own limited knowledge with firearm identification. Any relevant help there is something I'd also appreciate, and the page is here.

The problem with game developers is that they do little or no research. Look at Modern Warfare 2.

In regards to the local firearms companies, there are several that come to mind, including FAMAE of Chile, which produces copies of the SIG SG 540 series and the SAF submachine gun, as well as Indumil of Colombia, which I believe inheirited the official license to produce the Galil rifle. Argentina and Venezuela also have domestic weapons manufacturing capabilities for the FAL and the AK-103 respectively.

As for weapons that would realistically be seen in South America, M16s wouldn't be particularly out of place. A number of police and military forces in Central and South America use M16/CAR-15 rifles, and porous borders mean that criminals could easily get their hands on them as well.

I'd say it varies. Some know more about guns than others, and some do more research than others. Some of them even hire professional armorers (the same guys who supply Hollywood) to let them rent and fire weapons. "Global Operations" is a perfect example of this.

It depends on the lead designer usually, and also the artists. I know that I was super anal about weapons details when I used to work on mods. (same as I am here on IMFDB :D )

There's also HAFDASA, Halcon and Bersa in Argentina.

I agree that the Colt Anaconda is an odd choice (as are alot of the more obscure Russian weapons like the PSS). The AUG is appropriate, as several South American nations use it, as is the M16A1 (lots do) and the IMBEL FAL.

Hey wow, did you do that whole page?
I never heard of the game before, but I think I'll check it out because I'm such a big STALKER fan.

Awesome page too, good quality all around!

Yes, I made the majority of the Boiling Point page. The only things I didn't contribute there are the "developer's promo image" pictures.

Thanks for the reminder of the FAMAE SAF Submachine Gun. I had forgotten I'd seen it previously in Hitman: Blood Money, in a level that's located in Chile. In that game the FAMAE SAF is pretty similar to the MP5.

So if South American forces are using the M16A2, is the IMBEL MD-3 (a 5.56x45mm rechambering of the FN FAL) then redundant? I can at least understand the niche that the Steyr AUG fills (a bullpup rifle with a scope can be more useful in certain circumstances than a full-size assault-rifle), but the M16A2 seems to be in the same niche as the IMBEL MD-3. Is the FN FAL still the premiere battle rifle of South American forces?

How realistic is the appearance of the Uzi series of SMGs/Machine Pistols? I remember seeing one in the film City of God, but that's just one movie about one Brazilian favela (slum).

And is Taurus International still the most popular semiautomatic handgun manufacturer in South America? How about revolvers?

Well, Brazil is the only country that uses the MD-2 series. You can't really treat South America is a monolithic block, every army is different and uses different equipment. Most countries are replacing or have replaced the FAL, I think Argentina is probably the most notable holdout.

As Nyles said, you can't really describe South America as a monolithic entity. The MD-3 may be in the same niche as the M16, but it was also primarily oriented towards Brazilian security forces rather than export. The M16 on the other hand is more common in countries which have received a degree of American support, whether it was during the Cold War or as part of military assistance for counter-narcotics operations.

Likewise, although the FN FAL is still present in the arsenals of many South American countries, it is not uncommon for most countries to have several different service rifles depending on the type of unit. For instance, while Peru still officially uses the FN FAL as its standard service rifle, its special forces use M4 Carbines and Galils, while airborne infantry use the AKM.

Well, here´s a short summary of the available weapons in South America:

- Colombia: M4, M16 and variants), Galil, G3, M60, RPGs.

-Venezuela: Fn Fal, G3, Uzi, Dragunov, Ak-103, Fn Mag, RPGs, Igla.

- Brazil: Imbel Fal Variants, Fn Mag, Taurus handguns, Rossi shotguns and rifles, Madsen LMG (yep, they´re still in service) and several assault weapons in hands of drug dealers (M1, Mini 14, Ar variants).

- Peru: FM Fal, F2000, some Scar 16 & 17,...

-Ecuador:FN FAL, SIG 540, M16A2-A4, M4, Steyr AUG, HK-33, Uzi, PSG-1, FN MAG, Milkor MGL, AGS-17, Browning M1919,...

- Chile: H&k G36, Sig 540, Galil, MG3, M40, Famae Saf, ...

- Uruguay: Ak-101, FM Fal, Steyr AUG, Fn Mag, Famae Saf...

- Argentina: FM Fal, Fn Mag, MG3, Steyr Aug, M4, 9mm Ar, Uzi, FMK3, Fara 83, M16, Famae Saf, Sig 556, Fap, Mp5, Minimi...

-Paraguay: chinese CQ rifles and carbines (M16 copy), Fn Mag, Ar variants.

-Bolivia: FM Fal, Akm, Type 56, Fn Mag.

Trust me, big caliber revolvers are very popular here.

Indumil (Colombia)
Rexio (Argentina)
FM (Argentina)
Bersa (Argentina)
Rossi (Brazil)
Famae (Chile)
Dine (Ecuador)
Sima Cefar (Peru)
Cavim (Venezuela)

Thanks for the info so far, but how about handguns? Which company's products are the most common over there?

Given that there's also a bandit faction in the game composed of small-time thugs, goons, and crooks, are there any police reports talking about the most-confiscated or witnessed guns being used in criminal incidents in South America?

Part of the reason I'm asking this is to compile a list in case I ever find it possible to make a "more realistic weapons" mod for Boiling Point: Road to Hell.

Taurus don´t has a great reputation here (we don´t like brazilian products), so the most common handguns are Glocks, Bersas, Cz´s, and FM´s copies (at least in my country).

Well, during the last years, brazilian drug dealers have been using stolen Fals, Pam Smgs, grenades and Madsens Lmg from Argentina. You´ll found Taurus revolvers and some military rifles (even old bolt-action Mausers). The most common calibers in hands of the criminals in my country (according to police reports) are the .22lr and 9x19 mm. The confiscated guns are Hi-Powers stolen from the police, old .22 revolvers and some old .22 Bersas.

Well, you could fix the location. That fictional country looks like the bastard son of Colombia and Mexico.

Taurus doesn't actually make bad guns (well, anymore), but they're pretty unpopular in Canada because there is zero customer support or parts available. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out the most common centerfire pistol in anyone's hands in South America would be the Hi Power.

Trust me, Taurus don´t sell the same guns in North America and South America. There´s a big quality difference between markets.

Isn't the Hi Power the most popular handgun in the world?

Yes. But espescially in SA.

Somebody should remake Dirty Harry but with a different firearm set.

"But seeing as this is a wonder-nine Hi-Power, the most popular gun in the world and capable of hitting you pretty consistently at short range, you gotta ask yourself: do you feel okay? 'Cause I hit you a couple of times just now."

American 180. The very best there is. When you absolutely, positively got to annoy every motherfucker in the room, accept no substitutes.

No. The American 180. When you absolutely, positivity have to kill every single person IN THE ENTIRE BUILDING, accept no substitutes.

Thanks for the info. When you wrote "FM's copies" did you mean "FN Herstal clones" instead?

"Realia" in Boiling Point: Road to Hell I think has more resemblance to Colombia than Mexico. First among these tip-offs is the of the "FAPC" guerilla faction ingame, which is obviously a pastiche of Colombia's own FARC (last I heard Mexico does not have a similar leftist insurgency). Next is the complete lack of desert terrain ingame (then again that depends on where you are in Mexico). You should look at the screenshots I posted and see for yourself.

And why would Taurus International proverbially "shoot itself in the foot" by shoving off inferior quality products outside of South America? Surely they want to gain a reputation for selling and supporting reliable and high-quality firearms in more than just their home continent?

Finally, do ordinary South American citizens in "high-conflict countries" carry personal firearms around more frequently than Americans do? Last I heard ransom kidnapping is big business there, what with the drug cartels or leftist guerillas looking to make more money on the side. It's understandable to want to have a gun to defend yourself if you're caught in the crossfire of random driveby shootings or become the mark of a drug addict who's going through withdrawal and is looking to finance the next fix by mugging you.

I was talking about FM (Fabricaciones Militares) pistol series based on the Hi-Power.

I think Colombia (guerrillas and drugs) and Brazil (also, drugs) are the only "high-conflict countries". Maybe Peru and Paraguay, but everywhere it´s hard for common citizens to get the permission to carry firearms, the only exception are the security guards and police officers.

Mexico has the leftist Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN), but it isn't nearly as well armed or pose as much as a threat (despite recent setbacks) as the FARC. On another note, you might be interested in watching Proof of Life, which was filmed on location in Ecuador and features a variety of weapons that would likely be used by rebels or criminals in the region.

"Downtown 1, what the fuck was that?"

Everytime someone mentions that movie, I think of that line.

Regardless of what you think of him now, David Caruso was awesome in Proof of Life.

Well, how bad is it living near the favelas in Brazil, say in Rio De Janeiro? From what I've heard, the location in "City of God" isn't even a "real" favela, and yet it breeds that kind of psychopathy and violence? The drug trade cannot flourish without a large contingent of users/addicts, and most addicts can't hold down a job to finance their "habit." That's one of the motivating factors for many to turn to violent crime like break-ins and robbery to finance their "lifestyle."

Just read it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...nce-helicopter

Brazil won the 2016 Olympic Games? :confused:

That's a bit of a condescending question, akin to asking somebody what life is like in Compton because they live in the United States.

Burt, are you POI?

I don't even know what that is. :confused:

It was not my intent to offend, but the circumstances in Rio de Janeiro being what they are (high income disparity, large slum districts with heavy entrenchment of the drug trade, honest work being few and far between) I would think it would be plenty of motivation for some "concerned citizens" to start carrying concealed firearms, or to launch a campaign to legalize such a measure if it isn't already legal. I still remember reading articles about how campaigns to legalize concealed carry on US University campuses arose in the wake of some college shootings, but the high-crime trend in Brazil has been going on for much longer than a a few isolated spree shootings.