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Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkman (Post 8213)

I remember a board game in the 1980's that was about this very scenario. I forget who made it, but it wasn't Avalon Hill. Anyway I purchased it my sophmore year in college (1987 - 1988).

I and my college buddies spent many hours playing this game. The game gave many advantages to the U.S. to include a anti-missile orbital and ground based laser network. We modified the game removing the laser network and giving the invaders a solid foothold on land - ala Red Dawn. Even handicapping the United States and giving several advantages to the invaders the United States was still almost impossible to defeat entirely. Ultimately logistics made all the differences. The invaders had long supply lines and the U.S. didn't. There were other factors as well such as political and diplomatic, American partisans behind enemy lines etc.

Most of the time the invaders could hope for a deadlock at best and more often than not they found themselves being pushed back.

The game you're thinking of is Fortress America. I picked up a copy at a garage sale for a song... wargames rule.

Vest is a vest, really. Although that's quite different from any issued US vest I've seen guys wearing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira (Post 8203)

And the russians look nothing like real russian soldiers. I could be wrong, though.

Yes you are. (wrong that is) Modern Russian soldiers have a variety of camo patterns. Also they are often seen using load bearing vests that emulate the modern style of LBE gear being used by western powers. The uniform looks like the Para Flora pattern of Camo, and the placement of the New Russian flag seems correct.

http://www.tridentmilitary.com/new-p...RA-FLORA-B.jpg

Though the mannequin has pull up boots (which seem to be a classically Russian/Soviet thing) many Russian airborne troops wear lace up boots like nearly every other Army in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcatrazz (Post 8216)

The game you're thinking of is Fortress America. I picked up a copy at a garage sale for a song... wargames rule.

YES that's it! Thank you Alcatrazz. The game went away many years ago. I purchased the game with birthday money and a few months later I started dating my future wife. A few years after that she decided to hold a yardsale and the game went away along with my complete collection of the Conan anthology published by Ace and other items from my youth.

Fortunately I held onto to my comicbook collection. I still have that collection though I don't know why I bother. The Wizard says one thing about the various magazines that I own and the comicstores aren't even interested. But in another ten or fifteen years who knows?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkman (Post 8227)

...along with my complete collection of the Conan anthology published by Ace

Blasphemy! :eek:

I know I know. But I live with her so I had to prioritize. Hey several years later she apologized when she bought me the boxed set of the two Conan movies with Arnold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkman (Post 8213)

I remember a board game in the 1980's that was about this very scenario. I forget who made it, but it wasn't Avalon Hill. Anyway I purchased it my sophmore year in college (1987 - 1988).

I and my college buddies spent many hours playing this game. The game gave many advantages to the U.S. to include a anti-missile orbital and ground based laser network. We modified the game removing the laser network and giving the invaders a solid foothold on land - ala Red Dawn. Even handicapping the United States and giving several advantages to the invaders the United States was still almost impossible to defeat entirely. Ultimately logistics made all the differences. The invaders had long supply lines and the U.S. didn't. There were other factors as well such as political and diplomatic, American partisans behind enemy lines etc.

Most of the time the invaders could hope for a deadlock at best and more often than not they found themselves being pushed back.

Could this country fall? Sure,but it would take more than sheer force of arms. We would have to collapse from within for an armed invasion to really be victorious. Sort of like what happened to France in June of 1940 and what didn't happen to France in WWI.

Exactly, thanks for backing me up on this. That's an excellent illustration of the inherent difficulties. I've never played Fortress America, but I'm starting to think I should (even though I grew up at a time when board games were going out of style and video games were on the way in).

Supply lines are, indeed, a very huge problem for any military. Land-based invaders have enough trouble protecting their logistics as it is, but sea-based invaders would be a whole other ballgame. But even so, the biggest difficulty I foresee is creating a naval armada with enough aircraft carriers, which is something that's WAY beyond the capabilities of Russia, China, and all the rogue states put together.

In the end you all need to realize something.

Red Dawn is a film for entertainment.
It should not matter whether or not an actual invasion is plausible, its a film -not a documentary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdAstra2009 (Post 8271)

In the end you all need to realize something.

Red Dawn is a film for entertainment.
It should not matter whether or not an actual invasion is plausible, its a film -not a documentary.

Yes, that is true. But here's the thing: I'm not the person you need to remind of this fact. The people who need to be reminded are the pro-gunners who I've actually seen using this film as proof of why we need the 2nd Amendment. I'm pretty sure Milius himself takes the idea pretty seriously, knowing what I know about him.

And just a few pages ago, you were talking about how you thought a U.S. invasion by the Russians and Chinese was possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT2008 (Post 8277)

I was just going to post that.

Also, does John Millius really think that an invasion on US soil would actually work? I didn't get that from the film. Red Dawn seems to be the total opposite of what neo-cons think war is like.