I have no clue what your talking about when you say S&W 3rd generation pistols don't have that great of triggers, as the pull on my 4506 is comparable to that of a 1911

Yeah I should have listed them as loaded so there wasn't any confusion. They were talking about carrying them, you're going to carry them loaded is the reason I weighed them that way. Also I was too lazy to take the mag out.

The DA pull on my S&W 586 is heavy, but consistent doesn't feel sloppy like on some semi-autos. In SA it beats all, give it a slight tap.



Also we have gotten off topic. About the 10mm.

The reason it was developed. In the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. Agent Jerry Dove fired a Winchester 9mm 115 grain Silvertip at Michael Platt. It went through his right arm and lung and stopped an inch from his heart. (Platt ended up killing Dove and Agent Grogan) Instead on developing a new cartridge they should have developed better loadings for the 9mm. Which they have nowadays. Also Platt was shot a total of 12 times and he wasn't on any drugs like the North Hollywood guys. The human body can take a lot. No matter what the round.

Yeah, it's kind of weird how the .40 came about. Since we can't shut our traps about S&W Autos, and this 10mm cartridge, I'd really like to get my hands on a 1006. Of the maybe 5 or 6 10mm designs, this (and a Delta Elite) are the ones I'd most likely buy. I wouldn't mind a Bren Ten either but I might as well look for the ever evasive .45 Luger.

@ S&W You can't fully compare a double action trigger to a 1911's trigger. Most single action pulls are about 4-5 pounds, and if they aren't it's either a lemon on the line or not a brand name gun. There are other things to look for like creep and of course the double action pull. I've held and handled examples of first, second, and third gen pistols (my 5906 was pretty early too, made in 1992) and there was a significant loss of quality in the trigger pull between the 1st/2nd gen and 3rd gens. It might be different for the 3rd generation .45 Caliber frames as I've never handled a 4506, but I don't see any reason the performance would be that much different from a 9mm frame, and if it isn't then it has the same mediocre trigger. I'm not saying it's an utterly terrible worthless trigger, but it's not as good as other options and certainly not a 1911's.

Have any of you by chance read "We Were Soldiers Once...And Young"? Some of the US soldiers take staggering amounts of rounds from the NVA's AK's without even slowing down

I think i'd be nice to have one also, along with maybe an EAA Witness (my friend's father has one in 9mm and he has nothing but good things to say about it) in 10mm to go along with it

VLTOR got the rights for the bren ten and introduced it at SHOT.

As for the miami shootout, they had defective ammo, the lot was bad and it failed to penetrate or expand as it should have. Tactics also sucked, none of them decided to use their body armor (they had just left it in trunk).

A NY state cop was wounded, fired a 9mm at a suspect, hit him in the arm, and then the suspect killed the cop before another officer downed him. The state police said this was proo 9mm lacked stopping power and switched to 45. Like a .45 in the arm will cut a man in half.

One of the agents, McNeal I think it was put his body armor on. It helped but not much, the armor they had was handgun rated. Platt was firing mostly .223 rounds. About the tactics, 3 agents were "SWAT" trained. Two of them were killed Dove and Grogan, maybe they put themselves in harms way more than the others? Also Platt and Matix were Army Ranger trained, Matix's weapon was far superior than the agents, he had a rifle. A few agents had shotguns but that was it.

Here is a clip from the TV movie they made about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBGfKtuo2AM Also Platt (David Soul) is shown using a full auto AC556, he used a semi-auto Mini-14 in the actual shootout.

As far as owning a 10mm handgun, Delta Elite or Bren Ten (because of Miami Vice)

According to the wikipedia page, the agents using .357 revolvers had them loaded with .38 overpressure rounds.(this on the subject of the 1986 FBI shootout)

Would having them loaded with .357 have helped? Much?

So what does an overpressured .38 do exactly?

Overpressured meaning +P ammo. It gives the bullet more velocity and therefore stopping power. Since .38 is kind of a low powered round the +P loads make a difference. Though they don't so much next to a .357 Magnum.....

The probably chose to go .38 +P to reduce recoil and improve accuracy. In order to use a .357 Mag well you need to practice controlling the higher recoil.