Hmmm, IMCDB has it down as a real T-72, but I guess you might be right. Still, considering that surplus T-72s can be purchased for as little as $100,000 from Ukraine or other Eastern Bloc countries, I'd be rather surprised that the rental companies didn't acquire any.

I just recently saw Red Dawn. Suspending the impossibility of a Russian invasion without nuking Russia into the next century, it was pretty good. The iconic scene, "Wolverines" was awesome.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits Americans from acquiring any military vehicle made after 1968. Anything made after 1968 must be built from other 'grandfathered' vehicles. The only exemption is a museum which had approval from the DOD and ATF. No one in the U.S. will get a T-72 in a rental capacity. The only guy I know who had one, had it in his museum, which he jumped through many hoops to get 'approval' for

Why would they title a law call the Gun Control Act and include military vehicles?

Military vehicles have guns. Big guns. Big guns, automatic guns and armor. It scares the liberals to think of anyone being able to drive one around

Does a HUMVEE count as a military vehicle? I mean, I get tanks, AFVs, etc but there are plenty of vehicles used by the military with guns attached to them. Take away the guns and you just got a big car.

The Humvee is regarded as a TRUCK. Not a gun platform. It's like a JEEP. It's all about what the Government regards as a 'threat to the stability of the public' .... as if gang bangers would buy, restore and use a T-72.

The ammo for the cannon would cost more than a truck.

Interesting, I did not know this. But then how did Army Trucks, Inc. get its T-55s? Were they imported before 1968? (that seems kind of hard to imagine)

Even then...it's important to keep in mind that some of the "military" Humvees seen in movies are actually civilian H1s which have been made to look like HMMVs.

Note, that I wrote, MADE before 1968. We've imported Vintage WW2 tanks discovered in Europe in the last ten years for the obvious reasons that they were made before 1968. I worked on a Tiger tank that came from Yugoslavia that shipped to a private collector in California in the 1990s.

Ok, back on topic. I think weapon wise, we all wise they would use current standard firearms used by the Chinese ranging from Assault rifles, SMGs, machine guns, pistols, but in Hollywood, it's never ideal. I mean the remake could at least try to emulate the QBZ-03 which was a newer Chinese assault rifle that emulates the AK-47.

Interesting thing is that just across the Detroit River there, they would have been able to acquire Type 97's.

Well too bad that the Canadian armorer can't just cross the border with their 97s

For all the things that Hollywood hasn't tried to emulate in terms of how the Chinese are equipped, at least their uniforms (with the exception of the older-style helmets) are fairly accurate:

Movie:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5760/reddawn20105.jpg http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/red...jpg/1/w550.png

Real:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/211...aexercises.jpg http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/chi...pg/1/w1200.png

I though armorers could get post 86 weapons, or convert gns like the hk94 to full auto. I see mp7s umps glock 18s and stuff in modern movies.

Where in this thread did anyone ever say otherwise? :) American armorers can get post 86 dealer samples or build them themselves if they are a Title II manufacturer. But the U.S. govt. put the kebosh on importation of even sample CHINESE weapons. capice? :)

So the problem is the weapons are chicom, not that they're post 86?

The problem is Norinco the company, and the fact that they got on the bad side of the U.S. government. In the mid-90s, several high-ranking members of Norinco attempted to sell 2,000 Type 56 AK rifles (fully automatic rifles, at that) to undercover Customs agents, with intent to arm street gangs in California. Then, during the early years of the Bush administration, Norinco defied sanctions on Iran by selling them missile technology, so Bush, Jr. clamped down upon their remaining business dealings in this country. As a result, nobody in the U.S. is allowed to import firearms from Norinco anymore.

Of course, since Norinco holds the state monopoly on arms production in China, a ban on all Norinco weapons = ban on all Chicom weapons. But again, the fact that the guns are Chinese is not the problem by itself. After all, Chinese-made weapons were heavily imported into the U.S. during the 80s (as you've no doubt realized by the fact that almost all of the AKs in American action movies are Chinese Type 56s).

I do wish armorers can have some kind of special permission to acquire specific weapons for the sake of movie realism.

Yeah, I wish for warm oil massages from a naked Jessica Alba :rolleyes: The Feds won't lift a finger to change or alter federal law/regulations for a sub group so small that it is an indistinguishable blip as far as 'a voting bloc' goes...... :)

I would think the main reason (among others) they're using AKs is probably because they're recognizable as "bad guy" guns.

I don't see why. Humvee usage in China is bound to increase and even trickle into the military once they get enough of the components produced indigenously, so a PLA Humvee wouldn't be all that unrealistic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Mo...uring_in_China

Now a "Chinese" M1 Abrams is quite a completely different story, though...

But they you have to ask yourself. How would the Chinese transport all their vehicles across the ocean en mass? I know there's transports designed for that sort of thing, but they'd need a lot of them to have a force of tanks and AFVs, etc to match up to what we keep in the US.

Yeah, definitely a valid point, like has previously been pointed out. I was just now thinking that the "captured" Humvees and M1 Abrams (mocked-up Centurions, I know) could be a budgetary tool as well as a way of circumventing the logistical impossibility of a military invasion of the US mainland like we've been discussing.

Armorers already have the ability to import/purchase/manufacture most types of weaponry that none of us can hope to touch in our lifetimes. If they didn't, we wouldn't get to see the latest FN and H&K toys in our favorite films. But Norinco just happens to be a particularly unusual case, due to their notoriety.

As MPM pointed out, legislators don't think to themselves, "Hmmm, how is this going to effect the armorers who supply Hollywood?" when they sign legislation. And since there are only a few dozen armorers working in California (if I recall correctly), they don't have much lobbying power - although there is a group called the AEAA which attempts to fill this niche.

And I think that (along with the legal issues) is probably the best explanation. Everyone associates "Reds" with Kalashnikovs. I'm guessing that the director probably made this creative decision. If the director had insisted on having Type 95/97s, then the armorers would have tried to get him some (either by vismoding another weapon, or by using those new Real Sword airsoft replicas).

Yeah, that sounds to me like it might be the explanation conoceted by the filmmakers. But I guess we'll find out when the movie gets released.

Most directors don't really care what guns are used unless he's Mann. A majority of the time, guns and weapons in general are the last thing on anyone's mind.

True, but I imagine that if the armorer went to the director and asked, "What guns should the Chicoms have - modernized AKs, or futuristic bullpup Type 95/97s?", the director would probably think to himself, "Hmmm, Reds = AKs" and choose the AK-103s.

It's a tendency of people to use mental shortcuts like that, after all.

I still think the director most likely doesn't care as long as they are using a weapon that best represent Communism and what better weapon than an AK, but it would have been better if they somehow managed to squeeze in QBZs or try to mock some up

I wasn't aware the Chinese had pixelized camo now, I thought they used a camo pattern that resembled a bleached-out version of our old Woodland camo pattern, as seen in Battlefield 2 (which is circa 2005).

Here's an example of the camo used by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in Battlefield 2, compared to the above pics:

I would guess they adopted the digital pattern after "Battlefield 2" came out. After all, it was only in 2004-05 that our Army adopted the ACU, and whatever we do, the rest of the world follows later. Maybe the date that the PLA adopted the new pattern is on Sino Defence.com somewhere.

It's not so much that the director "cares", but MPM has said that directors usually have the final say on the weapons choices. Since directors don't know or care much about guns, they're likely to pick what they've seen in other movies and TV shows, or what they think the characters should have.

The digital camouflage pattern was adopted by the Chinese military late in 2007, and is known as the Type 07. It comes in several variations including the urban pattern, which is the version featured in the film and the one most commonly seen during PLA counter-terrorism exercises. There is a digitalized version of the old woodland pattern that is also known as the Type 07, but that uniform is used by the People's Armed Police.

Just found this clip on Youtube that's pretty action-packed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Ql5p0eO5U

Explosions start at about 2:50. It's also interesting that the soldier who is actually firing his rifle is using an AKMS with no apparent modifications, while the other soldier in the Humvee is likely carrying a fake AK-103.

Awesome. :)

But is he allowed to do that? They guy filming that, I mean. Is he allowed to just stand there with a camera, film that scene, and release it on YouTube like that without any kind of legal trouble?

Sure he is, as long as there is no profit out of it.

Or unless someone makes a "copyright" claim on the footage and YouTube takes it down. They're getting bad about it.

Don't mean to re-open an old debate, but one last thing...

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20091127/157008667.html

In case anyone seriously expects the Russians to even attempt an invasion in this day and age.

Making the events of Modern Warfare 2 almost impossible since the Russians would need ships to carry troops over and support, unless the main fighters and helicopters were supposed to procure fuel when then land on the states.

The one thing I can maybe say in defense of "Red Dawn" is that it's based on a scenario that was actually considered by military and civilian NSC advisers where the commies might invade through Mexico. But that was back in the day when half of Latin America was commie and Mexico itself was actually teetering on failed state status (and despite what some people say now, the chaos created by drug cartels won't de-stabilize Mexico quite that much). Nowadays, an invasion from Latin America would be MUCH harder, even with the new generation of far-left tyrants like Chavez and Morales in power.

As I've said, it'll be interesting to see how the screenwriters for "Red Dawn" 2010 devise their own Sino-Russo invasion. But whatever explanation they come up with, I guarantee you it's something that would be impossible in real life.

And we can't just say "it's hollywood." That's just an excuse not to think. Audiences are mostly intelligent people that like entertaining materials

If I thought too hard, I wouldn't be able to enjoy any movies or TV shows or video games, ever.

But the only reason I dwell on "Red Dawn"'s lack of realism is because I'm kinda disturbed how many people (particularly conservatives) actually take it seriously. It's embarrassing.