I say allow profanity, if it is a good quote, or an iconic quote we can remember. Get the ones from that anti gun shoot-em-up and the transformers quote, and all the ones that dont even have to do with guns down. Some of the quotes are crap, we should have criteria for adding them.

You are generalizing. Conservatives/Republicans are overwhelmingly pro-gun and are also the type of people who are unanimously against profanity as well from my observations.

I'm concerned that you just equated gun ownership with profanity.

Nope, I specifically said, "in my experience" and admitted it was an anecdote. Now you're doing the opposite.

But seriously, not all gun owners are ultra-religious holier-than-thou conservatives (plenty are secular Libertarians and Independents).

Personally I care whether or not people swear. And I figure a lot of gun owners are former military or LEO or just guys who aren't that bothered by it. But it's unprofessional. I swore all the time in the military, but when I'm talking to film industry professionals, I keep the language clean. When I'm in the conference room helping pitch stuff or talking to producers, I keep the language clean. What is so hard to understand about that concept? It's not about calculating who or who will NOT be offended or think you're an uncouth punk. It's about just not worrying about it and keeping the language non-profane. Some of the quotes are funny. I vote for a third option, just put F--K for the f-bomb. you can still read the quote and understand what it says but don't spell it out. I was hoping for more classic movie quotes, not the more profane 'hip' quips that modern screenwriters tend to mix up with any story that has guns.

you know, these damned quotes aren't even a vital part of IMFDB. It's polarizing the membership and it's not even part of the site mission.

Censoring the f-bombs seems like the perfect compromise to me. I'm in favour of it.

When you said that people who liked guns that you know swear all the time, you are still painting a picture of gun owners being foul mouthed/profane. When I said conservative/Republican I was showing that just because a certain group likes guns does not also mean that they appreciate cursing.

I guess I can go with that, However some of the quotes like the one from snatch needs to be deleted regardless in my opinion.

I also agree that censoring the f-bombs would be a very reasonable compromise

I still don't think censoring the "f-bomb" as you all put it, is a reasonable compromise. I'd, sooner see the quotes go before they get taken apart. I do however think that a significant amount of the quotes on there right now should be eliminated because they are just crude or too long (I freaking love the Snatch and Terminator gun store quotes, but I can see how length might be less than reasonable).

For example, we have like 9 quotes from that movie Shoot 'em Up, which on top of being sort of a stupid movie in my opinion, has a lot of crude use of language and dumb humor. It's not artful or tasteful, nor, funny (in my opinion), which is what it was intended to be. Certain quotes should be allowed or placed on the site because of their artistic value or their importance in pop culture or in a film which is typically highly revered.

Writers took the time to write these words, actors took the time to recite them, and filmmakers took the time to film all of it. Posting epic speech bleeped with "f--k" is like chiseling the nipples off the Statue of Venus, or blowing up the Giant Buddhas in Afghanistan (which actually happened.....). It's all part of something so much bigger than an instance of the word "fuck" or the offense it may cause someone who comes onto a website to see who uses what to shoot who.

I think we should put down all the quotes currently on the site somewhere and decide individually which should go and which should stay. Overall though, an instance of "fuck" shouldn't be a deciding factor. It's overall content though, and maybe even the movie it comes from, maybe, but not the "f-bomb"

Well, after an admittedly very long and hard deliberation on this subject (the reason I hadn't responded sooner), I have to agree with YNH. Censoring the profanity does nothing but mangle and dismantle the quotes.

Something we could do, however, is limit them to quotes without excessive profanity. A few profanities in a quote isn't an issue to me, but ones where every third word (or similar) is one could be excluded.

Well quotes are not an integral part of imfdb so it should not really matter if some quote has been "mangled" or "dismantled". If this site is to promote a professional image than profanity should be censored at the least.

The censorship we are talking about is in no way professional. When is the last time you saw a movie on TV that included swearing, but had to be dubbed due to FCC desires? Hell just yesterday I tried watching Menace II Society and had to stop within the first 10 minutes because Samuel L. Jackson swears so much in one of the first scenes, his voice was FULLY dubbed over with another guy who didn't even sound like him. Not only did it ruin the film itself, but it felt a lot less "professional" and so I couldn't take it seriously. My watching experience was ruined.

Now take a network like HBO into consideration. They allow language, some nudity, and graphic images. Some might not let their kids watch this, or might get upset if their kids end up witenssing any of this "questionable programming", but they know what the network entails, and they should be responsible for this "offensive content" coming into their life, especially when the network is known for it's content and has ratings and lists of what the programs include before they even air (the following feature film is rated...).

This leads me to my next proposal. Instead of tearing apart memorable quotes or the dialogue we choose to use as free persons on the internet, why don't we set up some sort of disclaimer? It could state that the site may include some swearing, and we could work in violence and movie spoilers which are also problems we have been meaning to address. It allows us word freedom and also covers our ass in case someone has something bad to say about the way our site is made up. We do offer a service that no one really has a market on right now, but in some aspects, we shouldn't cater to everyone at the risk of destorying movielines or our own personal speech, or sounding like a basic cable movie dub, they should cater to themselves and either avoid what's in front of them, or deal with it. It's the nature of the beast. Besides, we all look at f--k and think "fuck" so the only difference is that the site looks silly.

Now, this is not to say I encourage free swearing or the crap Oliveira does. Keep it tasteful and minimal, but apply when you feel it is necessary. Talk pages should be free, and you all agree on that, but even there, try and keep it as friendly s possible. Overall though, we all look at f--k and think "fuck" so the only difference is that the site looks silly. I'd rather have people worry about themselves and retain the sites and my dignity than have that.

I disagree completely.

Younamehere.... how old are you? Just curious. Your point is completely selfish and doesn't even address the larger SOCIETAL issues .... like the fact that others don't want to see the profanity, which is why it is CENSORED when broadcast on network TV. Personally I DON'T CARE if it detracts from your viewing pleasure. That's why you have the freedom to buy your own uncensored DVD and play it to your heart's content.

The day you become dictator of the universe and can force the FCC (and society in general ) to do away with ratings, and prime time rules, and FCC regulations, and the fact that some people get offended at stuff that you don't, then, it will no longer be an issue.

I am 18 years old. I'd tell you "I'm more mature than that" or "age doesn't matter" but I don't believe people when they tell me that, and I don't think anyone will believe me either. I do know that this is a touchy subject about which I have a lot of passion. I also know I have a mouth and a mind, and therefore I have the ability to create ideas and opinions and express them. Couple that with my right to freedom of speech (and the fact this is the boundless internet) I am allowed to say what I feel like. You can disagree with me and tell me why, but don't belittle what I have to say because I am a certain age. I have my own merits like you have yours.

That being said, MPM2008, I have nothing but respect for you, for all the tireless work you put into this site. It wouldn't be half of what it is without your connections and I thank you for devoting your time and resources to it. However, I feel that your proposition to censor the site, though intentionally good, is not worth laming the site. Furthermore you completely missed the point I was trying to make with the analogy in my previous post, and typing something like that takes up a lot of time so I'll try and simplify it. It's there for you and everyone to reread when you have time, though.

The solutions that have come up, to me, don't seem reasonable or in the best interest of the site for all users, and I know your decision to censor was, more or less, for VIPs or those who want the site to look "professional", but I want to make a compromise for everyone, not just them. I feel that a disclaimer for the site stating that the content found here includes violence, movie spoilers, and language, is better than instances of "f--k", because we all look at that and think "fuck" anyway; the visual presence of the word is a moot point if what we replace it with produces the same word mentally. Protecting children or younger viewers isn't a valid argument either because I think that responsibility lies with their parents or guardians, and if we had a disclaimer, they (parents AND kids) know what they are getting into, so if they or anyone gets mad, all liability falls on them for knowing what they were getting into and going forth anyway. Numerous adult content and videogame sites do this too, and it allows them to maintain their freedom of content and professionalism, and I feel that is much better than censoring every swear on the site or getting rid of them.

I mean, if you had a window for your bedroom in your own home, when you want to change clothes or watch something your neighbors might not approve of, are you going to leave it open and not care, (equivalent to leaving curse words everywhere along the site), never change your clothes or watch "bad" programming (equivalent to covering up curse words or eliminating them entirely), or are you gonna close the blinds and leave their ability to see what you do in their hands (equivalent to a disclaimer)?

Most of us are proud of our Second Amendment Right and stand by it within reasonable means, so why can't we do the same for our First Amendment Right, again, through reasonable means, like mine? Why be ashamed of our speech when we can maintain it on our own and be proud of it, and let others do the same? I don't know if anyone is as passionate about this as I am, or even if they agree with me, but That's just how I feel about this whole matter, and misunderstanding, underestimation, or empty comments like "I disagree completely" are not enough to make me think otherwise.

I think I'm gonna need to re-do this poll to include the compromise option. Everyone OK voting again?