There's also the episode where the French UN soldiers are wearing British (or Dutch-style) DPM uniforms.

The 1st Gens also weren't very common in the U.S., either in private or LE/govt. hands. Most of the PDs and agencies that adopted Glocks didn't start buying them until around the time of the 2nd Gen models.

Regarding the M&P, it might still evolve into a good pistol, depending on whatever changes S&W makes. But in today's market, it needs to be stellar and flawless, and it doesn't appear to be so. And it's hard to give it the benefit of the doubt because, unlike Glocks in the 1980s, it isn't a new and innovative design.

To be fair to the M&P. It might not be new and innovative tech, but it is based on the current tested design.

I have an ankle holster for my Glock 26. I've carried the G26 exactly twice that way. The last time was almost three years ago. No way do I want to do that again. My S&W Model 49 and my Colt Detective Special are the only handguns that I carry on a consistent basis in an ankle holster.

...which is all the more reason why it shouldn't be flawed.

At the risk of being accused of contributing to Thread Drift I carry a Glock 19 3rd Generation. It was issued to me brand new four years ago. It's a great little pistol. I shoot it well and I've never had it give me any trouble. I literally trust my life and other lives (i.e. citizens and other officers) with it.

No I don't think Glocks are the end all and be all of pistols and I'm not real impressed with the Glock 20/21, but I do like my G19 3rd Gen.

Now several folks are trying to tell me I need to get the G19 4th Gen. I fired both the 17 and the 19 4th Gen models about a week ago. They're okay, but I'm sticking with my 19. I hope to retire in about thirteen years still carrying it. And I hope that my department will give it to me as a retirement gift. It's still standard practice in the United States to present a retiring officer with his/her's duty handgun.

If they don't want to give the damn thing to me I'll buy it.

How well does the 19 shoot? Out of all the Glocks, it is the only one that I don't think feels awkward and I might consider getting one at some point. I've decided not to get a new rifle or an M&P so I'll have money for a different gun and I'm torn between a Ruger single action .357 and a Glock

In that case, get a Glock. .357 Magnums in single action revolvers can kick kind of unpleasantly, where as a Glock won't be any problem to shoot with.

.357 Magnum has gotten way to expensive relative to other calibers too. If you want a shooter, get a 9mm.

While per box of 50, 9mm is definitely cheaper. About a $5 to 6 difference. But you end up shooting more I feel. Shoot 3 mags, you're at 45 rounds. 3 full cylinders you're only at 18.

.380 has gotten to be more than 9mm, with everybody getting pocket carry guns.

Recoil does not concern me. The price does though. 19 it is, if I decide to use the money to get a handgun

I buy my ammo wherever it's cheapest, which is more often than not at Wal-Mart. When buying there, a box of 9mm is about 10 dollars, a box of .357 Magnum is about 25, aka a 15 dollar difference, which is a bit steep for me. I do agree that "less is more" when it comes to .357 Mag though; I usually feel done after about 100 rounds, but next to the 250 rounds of 9mm I can get for the same amount of money, I'd rather shoot the 250 9mms I can get and not feel so done afterward. You can do certain drills a lot easier with wondernines too like rapid fire or controlled pairs, without having to reload so often (though you will have to load magazines). That may not be possible if you're at a range that prohibits such things, but even so I take my 9s out far more often than I take my .357 Mag out to the range.

Yeah, it will be way easier to find the Glock itself, in addition to the availability of 9mm over .357.

I often buy from ammo to go. 9mm fmj is around $11, .357 fmj is $17. But if you buy in bulk 500 rds or more you really start seeing a difference.

smith and wesson, what happened to the getting a cz75? You go from the sexy cz to the boring glock. Everyone and their brother has a glock these days, a cz is less seen and has the cool factor. And I put an XD above a glock, XDs have a real confortable grip thats almost perfect with decal grip.

It all comes down to this: I can work the slide on a Glock and I cannot, I have discovered, work the slide easily on the CZ75 because it is so small. Hell, if it weren't so hard to find them, I'd probably get a Makarov or a 9mm S&W 3rd Gen. Most of my purchases depend on a few things: ease of use, availability of mags/ammo/parts, handling, and how hard it is to find the gun

Personally I find the G19 to be a good shooter. It's design makes for a very natural pointer. It sits low in the hand and I find the grip to be a very managable size for me. It has a very clean design as well and it's easy to break down. Add to this the fact that the 9mm Luger is an easy shooting load and I find the Glock 19 to be a very easy to use and operate handgun.

Now many here in this forum know I'm a revolver guy and this is true. The revolver is my favorite. But I find the Glock 19 to be a very good real world pistol. Many of my handguns are pieces that I've wanted for many years. As a result I baby them and they spend most of the time in my safe or on my work bench being cleaned for the umpteenth time.

My G19 is truly a tool and I find it to be a good one.

P.S. I also like the classic Sig design, the Browning Hi-Power, Mauser C/96 and the Beretta 92F. But for "real-world" applications I have no heartburn with Glock.

I've heard nothing but praise for the G19. I've handled quite a few Glocks but the 19 is the only one that didn't feel wrong. Hopefully I can find one of the 2nd Gens so I don't have to put up with the finger grooves

I wouldn't rule out a CZ 75 (is it a B version?) just because you couldn't rack the slide easily the one time you got to handle one. More likely than not, the gun will eventually break in and your muscles will become attuned to the action. It'll probably be as cheap or cheaper than a new or used Glock pistol too, and it'll be brand new at that. I got to handle a broken in Jericho 941 (CZ patterned) and I didn't have any problems racking the slide. That might come to me in part from having a Hi-Power, which has a stronger recoil spring than most guns, but that's also evidence of the muscle memory I was talking about.

Not saying the Glock is a piece of junk or anything, I respect what they are and their usefulness as it seems to me, but I do think the CZ 75 is a better overall pistol for general non-duty use (excluding CC for some people who either can't carry or can't hide anything but a snub or mousegun). Plus you get to say you have a pistol based on one of Jeff Cooper's favorites.

I have handled several CZ 75's and a few variants and I've always had trouble working the slide

All the same, if you own it and give it a lot more time than several isolated incidents, it'll probably become second nature.

So you want me to consider purchasing a gun that I cannot cock :confused:

I handled a few CZs at gun shows and shops and the thing that jumps out at me is how heavy they are compared to other pistols. (About a pound heavier than a Glock.)

I'm saying you should learn to cock it, but if it bothers you that much, then don't buy it. It's not as big a deal as you might think, and you might be missing out on a good gun if one training issue turns you off about it.

Glocks are typically lighter than everything else, and since they're on one end of the spectrum with regard to weight, it's not really fair to make them the standard for "other pistols", but they are a little on the heavy side at about 35 ounces. Weight is somewhat a minus for carry, but a plus for recoil control (granted the weight is distributed in the right place) and since S&W isn't going to carry the gun concealed, it doesn't matter too much.

I will CC as soon as I can get a license and I'll look into getting a J frame or a Kahr or something

Get a xd sc. Its better than glock and same style and made for carry

I shot my cousin's XD and didn't really like it

I'd like to get a Jericho 941 sometime. Looks better to me than the CZ-75. But I don't ever see them in my area so haven't been able to handle one. Magnum Research is no longer the importer for them, Charles Daly was for a short period but they're now out of business. So that may be the reason.

Also in the latest issue of American Handgunner it said that Kahr Arms bought Magnum Research.

So no more "desert eagle" branded 1911?

hopefully not

Kahr owns Auto Ordnance too, they didn't change their product line I don't think. I have read that Auto Ordnance's quality got better after being bought by Kahr.

I guess some of Magnum Research guns are made by themselves, but most are built by someone else and Magnum Research is the importer.

Yeah but it is dumb to name a 1911 a Desert Eagle.

I just got back from the local (non cop oriented) gun store. I handled a CZ 75 and suprise, suprise- It took 2 tries to rack the slide. I also held a little S&W .40 compact that I really liked. Maybe I'll forgo the Glock and just buy a little compact S&W auto, seeing as the gun shows full of them (people around here are trading their old, unattractive S&W's for flashy new Kimbers) and mags are easy to get. I also saw an old, beat to shit Sistema, which is a gun you only see around these parts once in a blue moon

I want a fusion grand sport wide body.

A compact .40 doesn't sound fun, shooting and cost wise, and are you saying it's good or bad that it took 2 tries to rack the slide?

2 tries is a bad thing and I think their is a similiar gun to the .40 but in .45 or 9mm. I see them all the time at gun shows because alot of people are trying to get money to buy stuff like USPs and SIGs

I dont understand the usp fascination, the magazine release is on the trigger guard for some reason.

It's sort of a status symbol. People genreally realize their mistake and buy a SIG, so there are tons and tons of them around

"Status symbol" and media exposure aside, they're excellent guns. They're just over-priced.

When I asked about this on the HKPRO board (because I don't like that style mag release, either), the answer I got from several USP owners is that if you have really big hands or long fingers, it's actually more convenient to be able to tap a mag release on the trigger guard than pull your finger all the way back to a button on the grip. But one of the guys who said this to me was some instructor who teaches fast reload techniques where .001-second differences apparently matter. It's not like I care, because those kinds of reloads are not something I feel a need to learn (even though it looks cool).

If the USP was priced based on performance, it only be worth about $400



No, my hands are massive and it's still inconvenient

USPs perform great ( i know a cop whos usp 45 has ate 6000 rounds with no malfunction) but the ergos are poor for me.