CZ 75 original

[Excalibur]

I keep hearing about the first model CZ 75 and how accurate it is because of the material used to make it and I heard they dont make these old models anymore

[Gunmaster45]

It wouldn't surprise me that the first versions were the best. A designer makes the gun with excellent craftsmenship and the best steel he/she can, and then gives the design to a manufacturer. Eventually they get cheap, make it with not-as-good quality, use cheaper materials, and so on.

This has been happening for 100s of years. Look at the Winchester 1894. The guns built by Winchester before they closed sucked. The action is sloppy, and the gun isn't built very well. Back in 1894 when the Browning brothers built it, it was as smooth and well built as the 1892. They cheapened the 92 as well, but it still maintained a lot of its good traits.

Gun manufacturers tend to be greedy cheap bastards in the end. Just ask S&W, SIG, SIG-Sauer, Beretta, Colt, and all the other companies releasing uglier, lower quality guns for higher pay these days

[Yournamehere]

Gun manufacturers tend to be greedy cheap bastards in the end. Just ask S&W, SIG, SIG-Sauer, Beretta, Colt, and all the other companies releasing uglier, lower quality guns for higher pay these days

I hear that. If you want quality, a lot of the time you have to get an older version of the same product, which in the end will yield a smaller price, better quality, and overall better enthusiasm over your product. There are exceptions, but not a lot I can think of right now.

[Gunmaster45]

Yeah. Any gun today that can even come close to matching original quality is way too expensive. Now that Colt's back in business, they manufacture their guns with the same equipment they used to use, giving the guns original specification. Except in original specification, the SAA cost $20, not $1,020.

Hell, you could buy an original in good condition for that price. :eek:

[Ace Oliveira]

When did Winchester go out of business? I though they still made guns?

Anyway, I think Colt still makes guns that aren't cheap pieces of crap. Let's just hope that they continue like that.

[Gunmaster45]

No, I believe they closed shop quite a few years ago.

[Yournamehere]

Winchester and Colt both have websites where they advertise their products and have MSRPs. I don't think they are out of business.

[Ace Oliveira]

Hey, i never said Colt went out of business.

[Nyles]

Winchester went out of business in 1980. The US Repeating Firearms Co made guns under the Winchester name from 1981-2006. In 2008 Browning took up the mantle and now Model 70s are being made at the FN-USA plant. Colt's been in business since 1847, but they've been pretty much marginalized since the 80s due to some very bad business decisions.

[k9870]

Ruger is improving which stands out. Under Bill ruger they were sucking up to liberals and not caring much about the customer. He even supported clinton ban. Now ruger makes Ar-15s and fsactory 20 rounders for mini 14s, the LCP is the best selling handgun in america, and who knows, maybe theyll even make accurate bolt guns soon.

[Gunmaster45]

I'm kind of intrigued by the new LCR they're selling. I want to check it out and see if it's any good. I like to be able to disassemble my guns to clean them, and the simpley built revolver seems good for this.


And 1847? Do you mean 1947 or has Colt been in limbo for 160 years?

[Nyles]

No, I mean 1847. Colt's never been sold or went out of business, they also never kept up with the times. They gave up on commercial innovation in the70s, and decided to subsist on military contracts. And then the US military went to the Beretta, the Minimi and the MAG, and now the only military contract Colt has is for the M4 - even the M16A4 is made by FN-USA. They completely missed the wondernine craze (their only attempt was the Colt 2000, which was a disaster), and then stopped making double-action revolvers right when concealed carry took off and snubbies were suddenly relevant again.

[Gunmaster45]

Huh, I guess I understand...

[Ace Oliveira]

The M16A4 is made by FN now? What the Hell?

[MT2008]

It wouldn't surprise me that the first versions were the best. A designer makes the gun with excellent craftsmenship and the best steel he/she can, and then gives the design to a manufacturer. Eventually they get cheap, make it with not-as-good quality, use cheaper materials, and so on.

This has been happening for 100s of years. Look at the Winchester 1894. The guns built by Winchester before they closed sucked. The action is sloppy, and the gun isn't built very well. Back in 1894 when the Browning brothers built it, it was as smooth and well built as the 1892. They cheapened the 92 as well, but it still maintained a lot of its good traits.

Gun manufacturers tend to be greedy cheap bastards in the end. Just ask S&W, SIG, SIG-Sauer, Beretta, Colt, and all the other companies releasing uglier, lower quality guns for higher pay these days

There's a very simple reason for that...expanded sales volume. When a gun manufacturer wants to sell more weapons, they have to increase production. And that inevitably means cutting corners on production methods. Anyone who's a fan of a particular brand or type of weapon that's seen an increase in popularity will often lament that the newer production weapons are inferior to the old in some way. Personally, I'm not as big a fan of SIG's newer pistols (which are basically cheaply CNC-milled slides on poor quality stainless steel frames) as their older ones.

[MT2008]

The M16A4 is made by FN now? What the Hell?

FN has had the DoD contract to manufacture M16s for the U.S. military for many years now.

[Yournamehere]

Yeah I just learned that a while ago too, if you go on the FN website it says that the M16A4 is one of their products.

[k9870]

GM, ive seen reviews on other forums, recoil is supposed to be surprisingly light (apaprently the polymer frame doesn't transfer recoil as much, and DA pull is about 8 pounds and real smooth. Test firing shows it doing good with 158s. Id love one some day, its also cheaper than the comparitive smith j frame lightweights,

[Yournamehere]

I've seen a couple of reviews on YouTube on the LCR and it is apparently the shit. Accurate as hell for a snub nose. Plus it's really thin and a good option for carry if you carry a revolver. Compared to modern Smiths, its the better gun, no question.

[k9870]

Ruger also makes their guns with quality metals, stronger than many brands. I heard their triggers are improving a lot lately too.

[Gunmaster45]

I might have to look for one then. :D

[Vangelis]

I keep hearing about the first model CZ 75 and how accurate it is because of the material used to make it and I heard they dont make these old models anymore

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/GSC_ScanCZ-75.jpg

Is the usual thing to post.

[Yournamehere]

I personally don't like the CZ 75 compared to other stuff, as the slides are very smooth and pretty hard to cock, and the triggers, while easily improved, are quite stiff for my liking. I saw one in polished Stainless Steel with an upswept beavertail though, that thing was awesome. I would definitely buy that one.

CZ guns are apparently excellent for competition.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k27/y0urn4m3h3r3/CZ97image5Medium.jpg

That's a CZ 97B in .45. The target was out at 25 yards, and no the shooter wasn't missing.

[Gunmaster45]

I have a feeling the shooter experianced a similar situation to mine. You get a bulls-eye on the first shot, and that's the only shot you take. You risk ruining the target by missing the bulls-eye with follow up shots, so you unload the gun and take pride in your lucky marksmanship. :D

[Yournamehere]

If you look at the way the hole is patterned, that couldn't be true. It's a solid hole without tears or anything, and it's just a bit oval, so it's not the exact diameter of the bullet.

[Ace Oliveira]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/GSC_ScanCZ-75.jpg

Is the usual thing to post.

Where is this from?

I also love the note at the bottom.

[Gunmaster45]

I assume it's from the Manga for Gunslinger Girls. There's notes on the page for the anime that lead me to believe this, since I've never seen the show or read the manga.

[Vangelis]

Gunsmith Cats, actually. I added that same image to the article on it because there's really no image you could use that sums up Rally's stance on CZ75 versions better.

[Gunmaster45]

I'm not an anime fan, so they're all the same to me. :D

[Ace Oliveira]

Anime all burns the same.

[Vangelis]

I'm not an anime fan, so they're all the same to me. :D

Yeah, but you don't find many comic series where the ending of one section comes down to a heroine with a Rohm RG-14 [not by choice, mind you] against a bad guy with a CZ75. Some serious David and Goliath ensues, only David's slingshot probably had better ballistics. Hell, non-Magnum revolvers aren't even supposed to exist in fiction.

[k9870]

Rohms are junk, never even heard of them until it was identified for me when i screencapped american gangster

[Vangelis]

Yeah, you'd think the gun used to shoot Reagan would be better known, if only as a rare time someone fired six shots from an RG14 and actually hit the thing he was aiming at with one of them.

[Excalibur]

Gunsmith Cats, actually. I added that same image to the article on it because there's really no image you could use that sums up Rally's stance on CZ75 versions better.

Well truth be told that's where I first read about the original CZ 75's reputation and Gunsmith Cats was a well researched piece of story with so much firearms accuracy, it's unbelievable.

Anime all burns the same.

Hey, Anime are works of art. You gotta respect the Japanese in how they do their animation over how our Cartoons are like. Don't tread on my hobby. I've done some of the bigger Anime page, Black Lagoon, Hellsing. I started the Gunslinger Girls page as well as Vandread. Guns in a lot of anime surprisingly had a lot of details. I mean I have yet to see an anime with guns with the infamous cliche "click" sound to show the gun's empty. I've seen slide lock back and characters pressing slide releases and reloading action even in low budget anime. It's beautiful.

[Gunmaster45]

I'd watch them, but they are never on TV and I don't want to spend $100 on the box sets they sell in stores. And my school library has no good manga, and I don't go to the town library.

Basically, it isn't spoon fed to me, so I'm not familiar enough with it.

It's funny though how many emo/nerd girls in my school are obsessed with Japan and manga/anime.

[Gunmaster45]

Yeah, you'd think the gun used to shoot Reagan would be better known, if only as a rare time someone fired six shots from an RG14 and actually hit the thing he was aiming at with one of them.

It didn't kill him, so I guess it didn't fall into infamy like the Carcano that alledgadley shot JFK. I knew a kid once who though Reagan was shot with an Uzi because of the USSS's case dropped on the ground that the Uzi was held in. I told him it was a .22 revolver, but I didn't know what type.

[Excalibur]

I'd watch them, but they are never on TV and I don't want to spend $100 on the box sets they sell in stores. And my school library has no good manga, and I don't go to the town library.

Basically, it isn't spoon fed to me, so I'm not familiar enough with it.

It's funny though how many emo/nerd girls in my school are obsessed with Japan and manga/anime.

I can recommend you several sites where you can download for free anime and a place where you can read a ton of manga for free without downloading.

[Ace Oliveira]

Do those sites have regular comics too?

[Excalibur]

No, go to a comics shop for that kind of stuff

[Ace Oliveira]

There are no damm comic shops in Brazil. Didn't you hear? We are all iliterate dumb bastards that rape our beautiful women. All while trying to illegaly immigrate to the United States so we can rape American Women and live on welfare. Or take jobs from REAL, WHITE, PROTESTANT AMERICANS.

[Gunmaster45]

Yeah.... maybe you should give him the links. :D

[Ace Oliveira]

I was just trying to say most of the Brazilian Steriotypes Conservative Americans believe. Also, i forgot, all our beautiful women are hookers and strippers too.

[Excalibur]

Well here's where you can read free manga

http://www.onemanga.com/


http://www.youranimenow.com/anime-episodes.html there's a lot of anime you can stream watch here

[Bugabear]

I disagree. Pretty much any expensive European pistol Ive used is of top notch quality. But thats only the expensive ones like Glock, Sig and HK. But your right. Older model guns are a lot crappier than they where when they first came out.

[Excalibur]

Glocks aren't that expensive anymore

[k9870]

Glocks cost gatson 52 dollars to make.

[Vangelis]

Glocks cost gatson 52 dollars to make.

It's Gaston.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/Gatson.jpg

[Gunmaster45]

I like Glocks. :(

And my sister watched Beauty and the Beast a million times when I was a kid, so I still remember that bastards name...

And he probably meant Gaston but his broken keyboard messed up.

[Yournamehere]

It's Gaston.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/Gatson.jpg

That is freaking epic.

[k9870]

Not a glock fan here, the grip is poorly desighned, trigger not so good, cheap barrels tha need replacing, etc.

If I want a polymer framed striker gun, Id get a AS p99

[Yournamehere]

I agree that a P99 is probably better, but Glocks are tolerable, cheaper priced, and easier to find. I'd want a pre 2004 Walther P99 or a 2nd Gen Glock 17, so it'd be a bit harder to satisfy my search for either gun.

[Ace Oliveira]

Police Departments could just get Smith & Wesson pistols. They are better than both.

[Yournamehere]

They are generally a lot heavier with the slide mounted safety/decocker, and the point in getting something like a Walther P99 or a Glock 17 is that they have the same firepower without the controls or weight.

[Excalibur]

The XD is something to behold. Looks like a Glock, but feels just so comfortable in your hands,

[k9870]

I like the p99 due to it being able to fire in true single action.

[Krel]

Yeah, you'd think the gun used to shoot Reagan would be better known, if only as a rare time someone fired six shots from an RG14 and actually hit the thing he was aiming at with one of them.

About thirty years ago I worked for Barkers, and we sold a lot of RGIs in both .22 and .38. They were very inexpensive, and cheap firearms. We used to joke that RGI stood for Rotten Gun Incorporated.

Later, when I went to work for Pinkertons for a short time, I was horrified to see that they issued RGI .38s to the supervisors. A revolver that had it's barrel, and cylinder chambers sleeved really disturbed me, and I would definitely not want to fire it.

David.

[Ace Oliveira]

Pinkertons still exist? Damm!

[Krel]

Pinkertons still exist? Damm!

I haven't worked for them since 1980, and that was only for a short while, but yes, they are still around. http://www.securitas.com/pinkerton/en/

David.